waysider

I think this thread has become somewhat of a living example of what the podcast is describing. For whatever that's worth.

Yeah, I know what you mean. It's hard to find ANYTHING when your eyes are shut!!!

Hey there, Mark I always enjoy reading your posts. Maybe it's the civility and logic you put into them. I don't really know. But hey------I'm just a crazy mixed up kid in a crazy mixed up world!

A Day In The Life---- The Beatles. --------------------------------------------- Well, the rain exploded with a fiery crash as we fell into the sun.

Now you see. Oldies I tried to answer your question about mind control in a perfectly civil manner. Still, you insist that I am claiming victim mentality. I never, even once , said that I considered myself a victim. Comparing a person's dismissal from a job with what happened in the Fellow Laborers program is about as silly as it can get. No one counseled us and said "this is what we expect and here are the consequences if you fail." Most of the times we had no idea what the person was accused of. It was not explained to us and we were forbidden to discuss it. One time(and there were many) we were rousted out of bed in the middle of the night, ordered to drive to limb HQ within a time frame that was physically impossible to meet and ordered to sit in total silence and darkness for what seemed to be an eternity. When the meeting started, we were castigated for tardiness and told that we, the Fellow Laborers , were the reason that the ultimate goal of Word Over The World was in jeopardy. You see, it was told to us that our performance was a total disgrace to "God and His Word" and since we were in the "birthplace" of the ministry, we were dragging the whole ministry down"spiritually". We had no idea what we could have possibly done. There was no question and answer session. We were forbidden to discuss it. We were forbidden to speak during the meeting The program was to be terminated when the sun came up. The next morning, we all met one last time at our 5 am meeting and were informed that we were being given one more chance but we would have to follow orders to a tee without question or else. Are you seriously telling me that you don't see elements of mind control in that incident?

Thankfully, though, we do have undiluted originals of the PFAL book which, of course, is the real God breathed word.

Because, Oldies, that's a part of the process. It makes you feel that the situation is hopeless unless you do as you are told. That's why you had to be very cautious about who you shared your concerns and doubts about the program with. If you were found out, you could be the next example of what happens to people who question authority. And at that point, you weren't totally sure your concerns were valid or widespread. Regarding the aspect of physical restraint: Suppose you are in an isolated rural setting, hundreds or thousands of miles from home, without a car or phone or money to travel. What are you going to do, stumble off into the rural darkness at 3am? Sure, you could walk out the door. Where would you go if you did? What would you do?, go home and tell tell all the locals back home what a failure you turned out to be? Some people faced that very question when they were ousted. We were not allowed to talk about them or ask questions. Doing so meant that you could be "next". That's using psychological methods to exert physical restraint.

Never Is A Long Time!

2x post

It's called "setting a precedent", Oldies. (ie: "This could happen to YOU if you get out of line!") And just for the record, I saw this technique used with great success in Fellow Laborers, as did other posters here who were part of the same program.

Hello Bride You may be wasting your breath. If it ain't in "The Orange Book", it ain't worth considering.

Does he offer any Biblical study "classes"?

Maybe the question could more accurately be worded: "Was TWI any BETTER than any other religious group?" With a follow-up qualifying question of ------WHY?

If you were to speak disparagingly about the Catholic Church in your local community, would the Vatican dispatch thugs to your doorstep to tell you, in no uncertain terms, failure to desist could earn you a pair of cement overshoes?

Oldies You either: 1. Have no idea of what mind control really is. -----------or------------------------- 2. Have failed to recognize that you too were affected. ------------------------------------------------------ Hypothetically, what if Christianity turns out to be false? Does that mean all the teachers and preachers employed mind control techniques? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- That's a ridiculous comparison. What if everything I learned in chemistry 101 turns out to be false? Does that mean my teachers and professors employed mind control techniques?

One would have to be an academic nincompoop to think that casually saying, "Well I got some of this stuff from other people" is a valid substitute for formally documenting one's sources. The man represented himself as having a "doctorate". You simply can't rise to that level of academic accomplishment without a thorough understanding of honesty in writing. Come to think of it, you can't even get away with using such a slovenly approach to citation in a high school term paper. Not only was he a con man, he was a fraud. He misrepresented his ability to produce works that were academically honest. I am of the opinion that he did so intentionally.

Hello, Mike For the record, I never said that "believing" is a law in the legal sense, yet that is how you have portrayed my comments in your last post. Yes, dr. did say "believing" was a law in the same sense as gravity. That is incorrect , Mke. Dance around it all you like if it makes you feel better but it won't change reality. Believing is not a "law" in any sense. You made a big deal out of your self-named TVT's and said that the misunderstandings are in these TVT's, not in the written material. That is also incorrect, Mike. I showed you in a very straightforward fashion that these things, whose existence you deny, are, in fact, written. The problems are in the written material. I believe you may have missed the point in my example of the CF&S class. If a man is to represent himself as one who speaks for God, he simply cannot teach contradicting versions of the same materials and then tell us that we should just trust him despite the fact that he has no scriptural proof. That is the point. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -"What you mean to say here is that it’s never called a “law” in your KJV." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In the future, I would appreciate it if you did not tell me what I "meant to say".

I'm not sure if I have mentioned this before, but VPW was a con man, a shyster, a flim flam man. The PFAL class was a rip-off, paste-together of stolen materials. (Though some of the contents had merit of their own.) VPW misrepresented it and pretended that God gave it to him so he could show the world secrets that had been hidden for thousands of years. In reality, he was an alcoholic, sexual predator who didn't give a rat's toe nail whether you or I lived or died. He lived a lavish lifestyle that was characterized by a fleet of vintage motorcycles, classic cars, a private airplane, a motor coach, tax free housing, a staff of personal servants who clamored to satisfy his every whim, valuable real estate, expensive guns and hunting dogs and hunting gear as well as an ever flowing source of Drambuie. He proclaimed that anyone who had cancer was possessed by devil spirits and then proceeded to die from cancer himself as did his son Donald. He promoted an agenda, as well as reading material, that condoned Antisemitism and White Supremacy. He stated that the US fought on the wrong side in WWII and denied The Holocaust. He had direct ties to the radical group known as The Liberty Lobby and openly promoted their conspiracy propaganda. He promoted poisonous doctrines, such as "the law of believing" that, in some cases, cost people their very lives. Other than that, though, he was a real swell guy.

10x worse? Is that a verifiable statistic?

Hi there, A laHere's one you might enjoy.It's Paul Butterfield at Woodstock(1969)If you look closely, you can spot a young kid in the sax section named David Sanborn. Ever heard of him? And oh yeah----Fuzzy tears it up on guitar!!!

I know there's a joke in there someplace that ends with the punchline "That's how the cookie crumbles.", but, then again, maybe the punchline is all that is needed.

If you ask me, I think your mind is STILL under control of the pleasant memories you have of a motorcycle trip that happened decades ago. You got hoodwinked like the rest of us. IMO

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Here's my favorite "fact or fiction" Stow-ree In the CF&S class, he says that, one night, God showed him what the original sin was, and that, despite his lack of scriptural evidence, we would "just have to take my(his) word on this." I can't decide if I should post one of these or one of these .

Hi, Jeffl You did just fine. Welcome aboard!