waysider

Kinda makes me wish I had signed the "green card" with disappearing ink.

OOPS! (I thought this was the "Humpty Dumpty" thread.) [:-)

No problem, excie. I think you conveyed your point quite eloquently.

I was not thrown out nor was my exit dramatic in nature. I simply drifted away because of family and work commitments. Truth be known, I had been slowly drifting away for a half dozen years or so before I finally made the break. And quite honestly, that whole idea of walking away from the "hedge of protection" seemed very frightening at first. When I hear people ask, "why didn't you just walk away?", I have to wonder where the heck they were when the "hedge of protection" and the "one true household" doctrines were being drilled into our heads. I mean, people really believed that if they ever left, they would find themselves standing spiritually naked in a world run by the Devil and be at his mercy, to do with them whatever he chose. I think that scripture about a dog returning to its vomit was used to reinforce this. They taught that if you ever left after now having heard "The Truth", your life would be much worse than it was before you "got in The Word". Well, that stuff never happened, but what took me by surprise was that, after nearly 20 years of people telling me how much they "loved me" and how I was "the best", no one even seemed to notice I was gone. No one bothered to come looking for me. I was unaware of the crazy things I have since learned here on GSC regarding the abuses at the upper levels and the law suits and such. For the most part, before I came to The Cafe, I thought of myself as a part of TWI in the same sense as a person who has moved a couple states away from home but is still a part of their family. I never felt like I had left God or that God had left me. I just felt like I had somehow disappointed God by forsaking what I thought was "the one true household." I definitely don't feel that way anymore.

Thanks, excie That's not only a beautifully performed song, it's a very powerful message.

Maybe none of them had an "orange" cover.

A big "thank you" to all who have responded to this thread thus far. It always amazes me how a person who wasn't even present a particular event can offer "expert" testimony. I saw a cartoon in Mad Magazine, a long time ago, that was captioned, " I saw the whole thing, what happened?"

Mark What I meant was that the mind control, behavior control and abusive treatments she describes are quickly discredited as exaggerated or false testimony. Then it is implied that her testimony is simply an example of falsely viewing oneself as a "victim" when in reality the person had agreed to this treatment in advance and was perfectly free to walk away from the situation at any time. (Or at least that's how the poster perceived it.) Furthermore, there was a verbal "strong arm" effort to re-institute the *lockbox* by not talking about these things. I suppose the same arguments could be made for any woman who finds herself in an abusive domestic situation, not just members of The Way. "Why don't they just walk out the front door and walk away?" Life is just not that clear cut and simple. Then, the bullying begins; suggesting that the person who has been violated is actually the one at fault. I hope that clarifies what I meant when I indicated I felt there was a parallel similarity.

Thanks, Twinky Excellent points.

Hello, T-Bone It's a little bit(OK, a lot) like asking your dog why he licks his own butt. He'll cock his head sideways, stare at you in a manner that tells you he has no idea what you are talking about and then go right back to licking his own butt.

Chance and the Choir

I hope this works.http://homepage.mac.com/talkinblues/Musicv...Theater114.html

Another thing I find myself wondering----------- How did a guy who wasn't even there become such an expert on what happened? Kinda reminds me of the old Henny Youngman gag. "I saw a man fall out of a third story window today. I ran over to him. 'What happened?', I asked. 'I don't know', said the man, 'I just got here myself.' "

Sorry, Mike, all I see in that post is "All Hail PFAL!"

Ya know, ya just gotta wonder what kinda tales Tic coulda told if only dogs could talk.

Hey, Mike! Ever notice how frequently "the written forms of PFAL" is the focal point of your posts and how infrequently Jesus shows up?

One of the questions posed in the original post was "Were you told that if you left you would no longer have God's protection?" Now, admittedly, I have paraphrased that somewhat to make this post flow. If the original poster does not find that acceptable, I trust he will let me know. One respondent's answer to this question was "No". I found that a bit odd, if not dishonest. I think it is a fairly well known fact that this is actually one of the more significant controlling tactics that TWI employed. I have to wonder how honest this person is being with their self.

Hey, Mike! Has it ever occurred to you how frequently VP Wierwille is the focal point of your posts and how infrequently Jesus shows up? There's probably even a mathematical exactness to the ratio if someone were so inclined(or bored) to research it.

First, let me say that I DO believe God can raise someone from the dead. BUT Medical files are filled with similar incidents. Wasn't there something in the OT law that required a person to be dead for a certain amount of hours before they were officially considered dead? I thought that was part of the significance of Jesus being dead for 72 hours before the resurrection. I could be wrong about that. It's been a long time since I looked at this stuff.

Thanks, Ham I guess what I am getting at in question #1 is that, the program in which I personally participated, Fellow Laborers, was never represented as a program that would "toughen us up" It was represented as an opportunity to do an in depth study of The Book Of Acts, both scholastically and in practical application so that we could go back to our home towns as more effective leaders. I really don't think anyone came into the program with a preconceived notion or agreement to subject themselves to "toughening up". If that was the idea behind the program, it was grossly misrepresented. But then again, what does "toughen you up" mean? Does it mean being able to run a faster mile or endure more sleep deprivation or sessions of belittlement or learning to live with less than adequate employment or what? As for question #2: I don't think I ever exhibited "weakling" behavior during my time in the program. Likewise, I don't think of myself as some sort of "victim", though I did personally witness what I would consider victimization of some of my FL brothers and sisters. As for question #3: If these things really happened, and I can assure they did, why should I rationalize their effects on people other than myself or make excuses for the abusive behavior I witnessed. It seems like minimizing these events or belittling those who were at their brunt is somewhat of a slap in the face even if it's not my face being slapped.

I'm starting this thread so the podcast thread doesn't become anymore off-topic than it already is. The quote above was a response to my posting of a particular incident that happened in Fellow Laborers . You can find that post on the "Losing The Way" thread but please post any response you may have here and not on that thread My first question, which is multi-faceted, is this: How many, who participate here, went into their respective programs, whether it was WOW, Fellow Laborers, Way Corps or other, with any kind of advance notice that the programs were designed, in part, to "toughen you up"? What does the expression,"toughen you up" mean? Question #2: Do you think of yourself as a "weakling getting victimized"? (Either then or currently?) Question #3: Although I'm sure, that, at the time, we must have seen it as a "challenge to do bigger and better things", does that challenge include sweeping these things under the rug and pretending they were insignificant?

That reminds me, there's a guy who recently posted on another thread, that in 1979, he was allowed to take the Advanced Class despite missing twig for 6 months. Well, like the old saying goes--- it's not WHAT you know.

Like father, like son----Tim Buckley(1969)--Let Me Sing A Song For You

HaHaHaHaHaHa! ( I borrowed that.) Yeah, the orange book is quite hard to read, at least without the special glasses that help you to see the wondrously amazing revelatory significance that has been cloaked in secrecy for thousands of years. Kinda makes you wonder how the poor saps who walked the Earth before PFAL even thought they had a snowball's chance in he!! of ever getting saved or understanding The Bible.

This is an impromptu jam with Dennis G. and Little Annie.