waysider

I'm bumping this one back up to see if there is any interest in discussing it.

Hi, AJ I think I see what you mean. For sure, it's not healthy to carry around resentment and ill-will. It has a detrimental effect both mentally and physically, not to mention, emotionally. The thing is, some people like to equate forgiveness with ignoring obvious injustices. (kinda like looking the other way.) It's like the guy who beats his wife one night and the next morning expects her to forget it ever happened and forgive him. He says he's gonna change. Things will be different. He's so sorry he acted that way. She considers what he says and takes him back. Maybe she even says she forgives him. Then one day, out of the blue, WHAM! He's right back into his abusive behavior. Sometimes what people confuse as a request for forgiveness, is really a request to excuse(even dismiss) behavior that is inexcusable.

I wonder if Harold Hill (The Music Man) was concerned about his offspring continuing on in his quest to bring music to the masses.

Ya know Here's the thing that I don't "get". God told Dr. Wierwille to assemble the works of other people in a way that they hadn't been assembled for two millennium. Of course, he very frequently neglected to cite his sources even though he admitted the work was not his own. Now, some people might argue that to be plagiarism, which is a form of stealing. But stealing is part of the Ten Commandments and we are not obligated to adhere to them because we live in the "age of grace" (I learned that in PFAL.). So we'll put that on the back burner for now. Now, I don't mean to discredit the works of Bullinger or Stiles or Kenyon or E.S. Jones or B.G. Leonard or any of these people. After all, they all had some really cool stuff they brought to the party. Heck, I'll bet some of it even came straight from God Almighty! Well, OK, I have rambled enough. Here's the source of my puzzlement. How come God gave Dr. Wierwille revelation to use the inaccurate stuff these guys did when he could have just as easily given revelation to use the "right on" stuff? What do you think, Mike? Nobody knows the fine points of PFAL better than you. So, Mike, how come God told Dr. Wierwille to use the stuff that is inaccurate in favor of the stuff that is "right on"? I'm looking forward to your straightforward explanation of this seemingly simple question. If anybody knows the score on this, it would have to be you.

From the man who was once the little boy who scurried tirelessly to and fro on his "big wheel" as the big people huddled tightly together to receive a proclamation from on high, comes this thought on prophesy. http://www.thewritingmachine.net/archives/...nts_to_li_1.php

You are making PERFECT sense, Dot. (Hope you don't mind my bolding that part of your post.) It's not you that makes no sense, it's the so-called law of believing.(IMO) I, too, remember this being taught. The Way taught that we had to believe for our children until they reach the "age of accountability". Generally speaking, in many cultures, a child has reached an "age of accountability" at twelve. This is the age at which they arbitrarily have the ability to decide whether to accept their given "faith" or reject it. Thus, it is also the age that they can be held "accountable" for their transgressions. Please note that this is not a Biblical concept, but, rather, a cultural concept. The "age of accountability" is not found in the Bible to the best of my knowledge. The Way further taught that, until a child reached he "age of accountability", their well-being was looked after by "Guardian Angels". A child was entitled to this protection if either one of his/her parents was a "believer". In addition, a child that died before the "age of accountability" but had at least one "believer" parent, would share in the inheritance of Christ. This type of thinking is cultural, not Biblical in nature. The example of the little boy dying because of his mother's negative "believing" is a horrendous mishandling of God's word and a grotesque misrepresentation of God's will.

Ya know---- I'm startin' ta think youse guys ain't so "tough", after all! (And that's a good thing----a really, really good thing.)

As usual, SirG, you have set a table that is filled with food for thought.

It adds a great deal to this discussion. Thank You

My apologies to anyone named Dan.

Here is a link to a web site that talks about that subject. http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php Although the author's schedule does not allow him to continue with new installments, the site is still "up" and filled with insight . And, of course, their are quite a few posters here at GS who grew up under those circumstances as well.

Hi, Jonny I can't speak for DWBH but as for myself, I would have to say we will never know the answer to that question in this lifetime. The only man who really knew the answer took it with him to his grave.

Good points, Cman We allowed ourselves to trust them to be honest with us. That was a mistake.

Great post, Sky Sorry to cut so much of your post out but I only wanted to comment on this one item, regarding "Jesus with his disciples". I think for some of us, the possibility of "studying at the master's feet" ("Jesus with his disciples") was a big draw. Of course, in Fellow Laborers, we didn't have VPW but the concept was the same. Both programs were heavily promoted as being patterned after this format. Based on a thread that appeared here a while back, I think there must have been some of that very early on, but by 1975 there was little evidence of it in Fellow Laborers. Once a week we had a formal meeting that resembled a branch meeting. Toward the end of my stay, it became one of the most dreaded times of the whole week for us because it meant we would have to endure a grueling night of belittling and ridicule. I can somewhat understand how an outsider might think it would be easy to just "walk away". But when you combine the importance of keeping a commitment with an uncertainty of what the world holds outside the "one true household", it's really not very easy at all. I think for some of us, who were adults and had already seen our share of "toughening up" in the real world, it broke our spirits and sense of optimism

Now that's just crazy! Every Fellow Laborer knows the holiest of holy "fire rings" was at LIMB HQ. Come to think of it, we even laid fresh cut sod around it one night by the light of a full moon. ( I'm not kidding!)

You Mom is a smart lady.

I just wanted to add that I think Socks hit the nail on the head(and then some) in his most recent post. You too, excie-----Mwah!(Did I do that right?) Thanks, everyone for your responses.

CK/Greg "So why is this hatred here, isn't this the same thing that TWI did?" Can you clarify what you mean by hatred?

This is the response that was given to my citing of that incident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ No I don't view it that way. I view it as all part of the program to toughen you guys up. Instead of looking at it like a weakling getting victimized, take it as a challenge to do bigger and better things. That was the attitude of mine in the corps despite all the wacky stuff we did there too ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The topic being discussed, even though it was a diversion from the "Losing The Way" thread, was mind control, not physical fitness. The poster who responded to me was engaging in a denial that Kristen's references to mind control were valid. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then, someone changed the subject( whether intentional or not, I don't know) to put the focus on LEAD and physical fitness. So, even though there were physical elements present in the programs, that is not the focal point of this thread.

This is the incident that I cited on "losing The Way". (It was in response to a poster who scoffed at the notion that mind control was part of Kristen's experience.) I started this thread to avoid derailing the other. ------------------------------------------------------------ One time(and there were many) we were rousted out of bed in the middle of the night, ordered to drive to limb HQ within a time frame that was physically impossible to meet, and ordered to sit in total silence and darkness for what seemed to be an eternity. When the meeting started, we were castigated for tardiness and told that we, the Fellow Laborers , were the reason that the ultimate goal of Word Over The World was in jeopardy. You see, it was told to us that our performance was a total disgrace to "God and His Word" and since we were in the "birthplace" of the ministry, we were dragging the whole ministry down"spiritually". We had no idea what we could have possibly done. There was no question and answer session. We were forbidden to discuss it. We were forbidden to speak during the meeting The program was to be terminated when the sun came up. The next morning, we all met one last time at our 5 am meeting and were informed that we were being given one more chance but we would have to follow orders to a tee without question or else. Are you seriously telling me that you don't see elements of mind control in that incident? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That blizzard of '78 was a once in a lifetime fiasco. It was totally unexpected. I think it set an all time record for low barometric reading.(IIRC) It was pointless to try to go outdoors because the gale force winds made it impossible walk or even catch your breath. Snowdrifts were up to the 2nd story windows in some places. Where I was at the time, there were farmers actually burning their furniture to stay warm because power crews couldn't even use snowmobiles to go out and make repairs. No trucks could get on the road to deliver propane or heating oil either. This one really pales in comparison, though I think we got more snow this time. My neighbor just used his snowblower to clear his walk, my walk and the next walk over. Is that a great neighbor or what?

I find myself inclined to disagree with you on this assessment. First The original "toughen up" comment was made in direct response to me, regarding an incident I posted that happened in Fellow Laborers(not The Way Corps) in the mid 1970's There was no LEAD program for fellow Laborers nor did the Corps program always include LEAD. Second I was incorrectly portrayed as a weakling who was playing the "victim" card. I never said I felt like I, myself, was a victim, though I have stated that I did see others who were, what I would consider to be, victimized. Third The incident was rationalized as part of a *growing process* that I should have anticipated and that I was at fault for not doing that. Nowhere in any agreement that Fellow Laborers made was there ever any indication we would be subjected to what amounted to abusive treatment, which tends to have more of a tendency to stifle growth than to promote it. Fourth Physical training is NOT synonymous with "toughening up". The physical training we received in Fellow Laborers came in the form of calisthenics and jogging. It was not a "toughening up" process. Physical training is not even relevant to the particular incident. ------------------------------------------------------ The original toughening up statement had nothing to do with the level of physical training we should have expected. If anything, people who knew me in Fellow Laborers probably thought I needed a little "softening up", not "toughening up".

Pistol Packin' Mama-------------The Frank Wakefield band with Glenn Weiser.

I really enjoyed that. What is the music piece that accompanies it?

But then again, how many are no longer alive because of TWI 1?