waysider

PLAF (The Wonder Class) The Biblical version of Pet Rocks. http://www.virtualpet.com/vp/farm/petrock/petrock.htm

Hi, bucks4now I drifted away in about 1990 or '91 so I really can't address that era. One thing that is important to understand is that these abuses do not represent what typically happened on a local level. In fact, until I started frequenting GreaseSpot, I was unaware of most of this myself. From the standpoint of awareness, one could probably draw some parallels to the Catholic Church. In other words, the vast majority of Catholic parishioners probably had no idea about the scandals that have recently come to light or at least the depths to which they reached. There is a young man who, having grown up in The Way, started a web site on which he reflected on his past. The site is no longer active but it is still accessible. You can get there through this link: http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php It's a very enlightening view of how a child sees all this on a day-to-day basis. The whole thing makes more sense if you view it as an MLM (which it was) than as a religious group.

Well, my point here is probably pretty obvious. Anyone who was actually an eyewitness to these events was dead and gone long before any of this was written. Imagine, if you will, someone in 2055 describing what happened at Rock of Ages '72. And, we have technological means of preserving history that obviously were not available during Paul's lifetime. One of the big problems I have with PLAF (The Wonder Class) is that VP gave the impression these events were written as they occurred. Either he didn't understand the importance of chronology or he just plain didn't give a rat's patootie despite his assurance that "The integrity of The Word is always at stake!" Either way, it doesn't shine a very flattering light on his presentation.

What was the average life expectancy at the time the Gospels were written? OK--I know there was no actually life expectancy, per se, but how long did the average person live?

Did someone say "drums"?

I think Wolfie ought to take it since he obviously knew the answer.

I just had this bizarre picture of ex-amway followers debating. "We had the best soap ever made" Did not! "Did So!" (Third part enters) Either of you guys ever actually use the soap? SILENCE---stage goes dark

Goin' Down Slow Anson Funderburgh and The Rockets featuring Sam Myers

Ry Cooder

Might that be The Boy From New York City by The Orlons?

Great Post, DL! I especially liked this part.

bucks4now It was a cleverly disguised Multi Level Marketing scheme. (MLM) At the heart of it was a "product" called Power For Abundant Living, a 36 hour long "class" that promised to answer all your questions about the meaning of life and how to succeed.(The vast majority of its contents were plagiarized from relatively unknown sources.) It used the Bible to give it a false appearance of credibility and sincerity. In reality, the "class" was a recruitment tool designed to enlist volunteers for "the cause".(Word Over The World) They(TWI) practiced manipulative mind control, thought replacement and behavioral modification techniques to extract commitment and devotion from followers. If you go to the home page, you can listen to the two podcasts about Losing The Way which will give you a peek in the window of one follower's journey. Also, while you are there, I recommend listening to The Law Of Believing: No God required. The so called "law" of believing is one of the core tenets of The Way. edited for this: Organizationally, they were supposedly structured like a tree. (ie: A person is a leaf, several leaves are a twig, several twigs are a branch(usually all the twigs in a city), several branches make up a limb (usually a state), a country is a trunk and all is designed to serve the "root" which was the headquarters (Int. HQ) in New Knoxville, Ohio. Almost all the money traveled a one-way path to the "root". VP Wierwille was the mastermind and ultimate leader. He set himself up to be "The Man Of God For Our Day And Time" (MOGFODAT) and claimed God had spoken directly to him in an audible voice, revealing nuances of the scriptures that had not been known for thousands of years, which were , for the most part, really plagiarized materials and even cleverly disguised propaganda from anti-Semitic groups and white supremacy groups.) And I actually bought into it----*sigh*

Close enough for this old hippie.

How's about some Huey Lewis with some help from the T.O.P. horns

"Back to square one" Yes, in a sense, you are "back to square one". But, that is not at all the same thing as STILL at square one. Think of it as one of life's many, many round-trip journeys. It's not so much where the trip starts and ends but what you experience in the process. Just a thought.

Holy cats, Oenophile You got it down to the very script they used!! Cool post!!

This discussion generates a whole new train of thought for me. It's a sort of dilemma, really. You see, in PLAF (The Wonder Class), VPW taught that "fruit of the spirit" was directly resultant from operation of the manifestations. This idea was reinforced in the Intermediate as well as the Advanced Class. One aspect of FOS (fruit of the spirit) is "longsuffering", which Wierwille said is "patience" or a sense of tolerance, if you will. Now, when VP was quoting The Apostle Paul as stating, " I thank my God I speak in tongues more than ye all", he used his homiletic skills to imply that he, VPW, himself, spoke in tongues more than any of us, or, at the very least,a great deal. Yet, we have page after page after page documenting his absolutely explosive and unpredictably impatient and intolerant behavior. So now here's the dilemma. 1. He really did SIT much but was incorrect in his interpretation of that section of scripture. (Hence, his credibility is at stake.) 2. He was a blatant fraud. Either way, it doesn't look too encouraging, folks.

Just ordered mine today.

Well, that was the year there was a little fireworks display. Also, someone performed American Trilogy at the closing service. Barry McCoy, perhaps?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwSNbC9zK-w Free Post!

Well said, LZ.

In my view, GSC is a bit like a triage area. People come here with a wide variety of injuries and treatment requirements. But, along come the doubters who seem insistent that all will be fine with an aspirin and a band-aid. Or worse, that the car wreck never really happened. Of course, there are some who will do just fine will minimal treatment but others require much more extensive help. You can't just hang around the triage room insisting that people reflect on the good time they had at the beach just before the awful car wreck and not expect to encounter some resistance. Talking (extensively or exclusively) about the good times at the beach is best left for a future date when the bandages have been removed and the pain has subsided. Just my opinion

Uncle Harry was the one who was so opposed to life insurance. Anything that took money away from the ministry was viewed as evil, be it a food pantry to feed the poor, a charity to help crime victims or the purchase of life insurance. I remember dr. w going into one of his pseudo tyraids at an SNS or someplace about how life insurance was "off the word" because our survivors "ought to be able to believe God to supply their needs". Naturally he used several scriptures to "prove" he was right. Funerals and burials are expensive. How could it possibly be wrong to have some sort of plan in place to defray the cost to your survivors?

I don't know the answer, Phil. The best I can do is offer my opinion on Wierwille. In retrospect, I don't really think he honestly believed what he expounded. The progression of his success is too calculated, progressive and intentionally deceptive to have been spontaneous. On the other hand, I don't think he foresaw how quickly or how large his scheme would grow. Once he saw he was onto something, though, he seized the opportunity with fervor. If he did believe his own words, it was certainly not evident in his own lifestyle. Biblically speaking, you tend to speak what is in your heart and out of that heart comes the life you manifest. There was an obvious incongruity in this area with Wierwille. I also think he was quite mentally ill, which may be a separate issue or be inextricably intertwined into the mix.

Julie Black