waysider

I think there are really two different questions represented here. 1. Do you think there is validity to the Biblical accounts of speaking in tongues? 2. Do you think VPW was accurate in his analysis of its meaning and its application to modern times? (Though I realize he did not reach those conclusions through his own doing.) (1.)Personally, I think there is some validity to the Biblical accounts, though I'm not sure of the depth of the significance. (2.) I'm inclined to believe that the speakers were aware of the meaning of their words and the burden of understanding fell on the recipients who did not normally understand the languages spoken. Sort of a reversal of what we have always assumed. In other words, I speak something in English, my native "tongue", yet someone who only understands French understands what I am saying. I guess, perhaps, the key would be in understanding who is being referred to when it talks about "their" native tongue, the speaker or the hearer? Either way, I personally never heard an example of either version. Wierwille's was probably the phoniest I ever heard. If you listen to his "schpiel" in PLAF(The Miracle Class), you can hear him trying to justify the phoniness of his own tongue, I know someone who totally faked the whole thing straight through the Intermediate Class and then on into twig fellowship. Where was the "revelation" to alert the leaders of the deception? And yet, I believe I received something I would now consider to be divine revelation without a shadow of a doubt. (Once and only once as far as the certainty) edited to note: If it wasn't revelation, there is something out there that is way too big and powerful for me to chance pizzing off.

Well, I agree with you---- (in the context of a genuinely philanthropic organization). Trouble is, TWI was, in reality, a pyramid scheme, otherwise known as as a multi-level-marketing organization or MLM for short. It was all about the bottom line. Wierwille was a cold fish who could put on a very good front. He didn't really care if you lived or died as long as the money kept flowing in his direction. If you think that assessment is a bit too cold, please re-read the L.E.A.D. accident thread and decide for yourself. It was all about Wierwille, maintaining his cushy lifestyle and promoting his anti-Semitic, Liberty Lobby, white supremacy agenda. Had he been genuine, it would have broken his heart to see the way people suffered and died to sustain his lifestyle.-------------- dirty bastage!!!

It's always great to hear from you, Mo. Glad life is keeping you active and busy. Hope you have a wonderful summer!!

Here's a cool little Bill Evans story. In the 1930's, when Bill and his older brother Harry were just kids, there was only enough money for one of them to start taking the piano lessons that they both desired. Harry, being the older, would take the lesson and then come home to show Bill whatever it was he had been taught that day. Bill would gobble it up make it his own. That's real brotherly love for you.

If they don't grow their own mung bean sprouts and Swiss Chard and make their own familia from scratch in bag- lined garbage cans, I ain't goin' and that's that!! And you can't make me! So there!

For those who may not be aware of how this works, I offer the following explanation: Two believers decide to go mall witnessing. They cruise the mall until they see a potential target,alone and unoccupied on a bench. They split up and one casually sits next to the target. Next, the second believer(the shill) moves in and sits next to them, striking up a conversation with believer #1 but not acknowledging the fact that they know each other. The conversation (the topic being The Word, of course) will ultimately lead to the two believers being on somewhat opposing but innocuous sides of a "debate". At this point, the target may feel compelled to take sides with one of the two, thus drawing himself into the discussion, completely unaware that he has taken the bait. That's the proverbial foot-in-the-door that would otherwise be difficult to find and will hopefully lead to a signature on the familiar "green card". There are lots of variations. I've seen it done in bars and outdoor festivals as well.

Nobody got it so I guess that means------FREE POST!!!!

I can and will tell you as a matter of stated fact that "shill witnessing" was promoted by TWI. It was an especially popular method to use when mall-witnessing. Lots of malls have "no solicitation" rules, but, impromptu conversations among (what appear to be) strangers are permitted. It's a perfect method of circumventing that little technicality. It's as old as the very art of "hucksterism". (Is that a real word?)

"Is masturbation a sin?" Yes---- Right along with breathing, eating, excreting and everything else a normal human being might do. If I were to seek advise regarding normal sexual behavior, VPW would not be on my list of qualified candidates for providing reliable answers. (Did I understate that too much?)

It's ironic, really. You would think that, on a statistical level, Bible readers would be the most likely to at least stumble on the scriptural reality of what tithing represented in the O.T. and therefor be the least likely to practice it. But then again, most of us read Christian's Should Be Prosperous and blindly accepted it as being accurate.

"Shills" are an age old reality in the business of professional theatre, especially when a production is new and large quantities of cash are on the line. It certainly does seem peculiar that VP not only remembered the incident four years after the fact but that he conveniently found a way to incorporate the incident into conversation at an especially critical moment during what was essentially a sales pitch.

Well, like I said, Sudo, I did that scene in a "studio". (a performance that was only intended for the students in the class.) I even remembered some of the lines. It's a tough play to pull off effectively because of the idiosyncrasies of a couple of the characters. There is great symbolism in it if one is so inclined as to approach it from that angle.

Man! That one hits close to home. Very few people have literally changed the course of modern music the way Bill did.

Here's an interview with the late, great Paul DeLay that has some really tasty music laced throughout it. http://www.opb.org/programs/artbeat/videos...w/48-Paul-DeLay

Why can't I be like any guy, why do they try to make me run?

Oh, man! I had to do that scene for an acting class I took a long time ago! I'm going to blow the dust off that old script and look at it for old-times sake. (That is, if the mice haven't gotten in and eaten the darn thing by now.)

And therein lies the crux of a rather large problem; how can one sort out that which was real from that which was not? Well, I suppose it one wanted to spend hours on end with their nose buried in a book it might be partially possible. That time might be better spent, though, just helping the guy down the street who has gotten too elderly to handle all his chores on his own.

What would Jesus say? "Hey, you wacky knuckleheads, quit "playing church" and have a little fun in this life." (I stole the playing church thing from Rev. Tracy, who was once heard to say, "The Way is a like a bunch of kids playing church.") paraphrased quotes.

And these are just the examples that aren't too entirely embarrassing to share.

Dang! I knew it was someplace in Pennsylvania!

I've stayed away from this because I haven't read the book. Sorry, Eyes, I just can't read a lot like I did when I was younger and my eyeballs didn't tire so quickly.

Maybe that's because the stuff we were taught about "operating the revelation manifestations" was really just a wheel barrow full of equine excrement. Just a thought.

Sliders are mini-burgers.(You buy them by dozen or 1/2 dozen) They are square and have holes in them to facilitate the steam cooking process. They are cooked on a grill on top of reconstituted onions. Yum---Just the thing to settle your stomach at 4am after a long night of painting the town red. :wacko:

I remember that class, It was called Keys To Research. Donna came to our area to teach it live. She introduced herself in the first session and cited her credentials. I don't recall what they were but they were from outside of TWI. Personally, I did not care for the class but that is not a refection on Donna. It seemed to me like she was trying to cover so much ground in one weekend, it was futile. I remember wondering, at the time, why TWI didn't have more classes of this nature. It was, after all, purporting itself to be a "research ministry". I never even knew she left until I read it here in this thread.