waysider

What did the Sadist say when the Masochist said "Hit Me!"? NO!

Wow! You've stumped me on this one. It doesn't sound even vaguely familiar.

Yes, I agree that people should be "held accountable for things they do and say on the internet" GSC is, indeed, a public place in that virtually anyone with a computer can access these pages for perusal. Participation here, however, requires that one subscribe and follow the rules, both in letter and in spirit. That means that, even though GSC is "public" in terms of visibility, activity here can be controlled "privately" by the operators of the site. It also means they can "hold people accountable for things they do and say" as participants. As the proprietors, they are within their rights and they have the power to do so, much as the proprietor of a privately owned theater has the right to insist that disruptive speech, such as calling, "FIRE!" or open solicitation be prohibited. IMO

A large part of TWI's activity was based on recruitment through door-to-door witnessing, mall witnessing, public recruitment meetings (called Public EX.'s) etc. For that reason, there was a sense of animosity (for lack of a better word) by the locals toward TWI. Add to that the fact that TWI "members" had a tendency to be condescending toward locals because, as far as they were concerned, the locals were not part of "the one true household". There are local churches in the area but, again, the coexistence is/was a strained relationship. TWI claims that one can not become a "member" because you are supposedly free to come and go. Thus, they supposedly keep no membership files. That whole line of reason is a twisted sense of nonsense as they closely monitor attendance and financial offerings. The whole object is to bring more and more recruits into the fold who will thus bring more income to the organization. It's "required" that you give at least 15 to 20% of your gross income(last estimate I heard) to be considered in good standing. So, It's hard to hide your involvement and actively sell the "product" at the same time. Members will sometimes resort to what I consider a form of deception to lure in recruits. Young, single members will feign romantic interest in a recruit to lure them to fellowships where they will be "love bombed" and made to feel special. Then the indoctrination begins

You are not using the wrong phrases. The thing you have to understand about a cult is, that, unlike a conventional church, it's not a "worship on Sunday" kind of thing. It consumes your every minute, 24/7---365. It is at the center of everything you decide, such as what kind of car to buy (can I fit all the A/V eqt. in the trunk?) to the apartment you rent.(Will there be enough off-street parking for fellowship attendees?) to the job offers you consider.(Will I be required to work hours that conflict with ministry functions?) And yes, a "splinter group" is one that has spun off of TWI but has maintained the same essential tenets and practices. There was a "splinter" group in Central Ohio that split off as early as the early 1970's .On his web site(The Writing Machine) Christian Cloud Abraham talks about what it was like to have to move from city to city as his mother was reassigned every year or so.

PLAF (The Wonder Class) The Biblical version of Pet Rocks. http://www.virtualpet.com/vp/farm/petrock/petrock.htm

Hi, bucks4now I drifted away in about 1990 or '91 so I really can't address that era. One thing that is important to understand is that these abuses do not represent what typically happened on a local level. In fact, until I started frequenting GreaseSpot, I was unaware of most of this myself. From the standpoint of awareness, one could probably draw some parallels to the Catholic Church. In other words, the vast majority of Catholic parishioners probably had no idea about the scandals that have recently come to light or at least the depths to which they reached. There is a young man who, having grown up in The Way, started a web site on which he reflected on his past. The site is no longer active but it is still accessible. You can get there through this link: http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php It's a very enlightening view of how a child sees all this on a day-to-day basis. The whole thing makes more sense if you view it as an MLM (which it was) than as a religious group.

Well, my point here is probably pretty obvious. Anyone who was actually an eyewitness to these events was dead and gone long before any of this was written. Imagine, if you will, someone in 2055 describing what happened at Rock of Ages '72. And, we have technological means of preserving history that obviously were not available during Paul's lifetime. One of the big problems I have with PLAF (The Wonder Class) is that VP gave the impression these events were written as they occurred. Either he didn't understand the importance of chronology or he just plain didn't give a rat's patootie despite his assurance that "The integrity of The Word is always at stake!" Either way, it doesn't shine a very flattering light on his presentation.

What was the average life expectancy at the time the Gospels were written? OK--I know there was no actually life expectancy, per se, but how long did the average person live?

Did someone say "drums"?

I think Wolfie ought to take it since he obviously knew the answer.

I just had this bizarre picture of ex-amway followers debating. "We had the best soap ever made" Did not! "Did So!" (Third part enters) Either of you guys ever actually use the soap? SILENCE---stage goes dark

Goin' Down Slow Anson Funderburgh and The Rockets featuring Sam Myers

Ry Cooder

Might that be The Boy From New York City by The Orlons?

Great Post, DL! I especially liked this part.

bucks4now It was a cleverly disguised Multi Level Marketing scheme. (MLM) At the heart of it was a "product" called Power For Abundant Living, a 36 hour long "class" that promised to answer all your questions about the meaning of life and how to succeed.(The vast majority of its contents were plagiarized from relatively unknown sources.) It used the Bible to give it a false appearance of credibility and sincerity. In reality, the "class" was a recruitment tool designed to enlist volunteers for "the cause".(Word Over The World) They(TWI) practiced manipulative mind control, thought replacement and behavioral modification techniques to extract commitment and devotion from followers. If you go to the home page, you can listen to the two podcasts about Losing The Way which will give you a peek in the window of one follower's journey. Also, while you are there, I recommend listening to The Law Of Believing: No God required. The so called "law" of believing is one of the core tenets of The Way. edited for this: Organizationally, they were supposedly structured like a tree. (ie: A person is a leaf, several leaves are a twig, several twigs are a branch(usually all the twigs in a city), several branches make up a limb (usually a state), a country is a trunk and all is designed to serve the "root" which was the headquarters (Int. HQ) in New Knoxville, Ohio. Almost all the money traveled a one-way path to the "root". VP Wierwille was the mastermind and ultimate leader. He set himself up to be "The Man Of God For Our Day And Time" (MOGFODAT) and claimed God had spoken directly to him in an audible voice, revealing nuances of the scriptures that had not been known for thousands of years, which were , for the most part, really plagiarized materials and even cleverly disguised propaganda from anti-Semitic groups and white supremacy groups.) And I actually bought into it----*sigh*

Close enough for this old hippie.

How's about some Huey Lewis with some help from the T.O.P. horns

"Back to square one" Yes, in a sense, you are "back to square one". But, that is not at all the same thing as STILL at square one. Think of it as one of life's many, many round-trip journeys. It's not so much where the trip starts and ends but what you experience in the process. Just a thought.

Holy cats, Oenophile You got it down to the very script they used!! Cool post!!

This discussion generates a whole new train of thought for me. It's a sort of dilemma, really. You see, in PLAF (The Wonder Class), VPW taught that "fruit of the spirit" was directly resultant from operation of the manifestations. This idea was reinforced in the Intermediate as well as the Advanced Class. One aspect of FOS (fruit of the spirit) is "longsuffering", which Wierwille said is "patience" or a sense of tolerance, if you will. Now, when VP was quoting The Apostle Paul as stating, " I thank my God I speak in tongues more than ye all", he used his homiletic skills to imply that he, VPW, himself, spoke in tongues more than any of us, or, at the very least,a great deal. Yet, we have page after page after page documenting his absolutely explosive and unpredictably impatient and intolerant behavior. So now here's the dilemma. 1. He really did SIT much but was incorrect in his interpretation of that section of scripture. (Hence, his credibility is at stake.) 2. He was a blatant fraud. Either way, it doesn't look too encouraging, folks.

Just ordered mine today.

Well, that was the year there was a little fireworks display. Also, someone performed American Trilogy at the closing service. Barry McCoy, perhaps?