waysider

How about The Golden Rule? That one covers a lot of territory.

The rules here are fine the way they are. IMO

Bucks4now It's not a church in the typical sense. It's a cult. New Knoxville is where the corporate offices are located. (I left almost 20 years ago so my information may be outdated.) For the most part, they meet in small groups(once called "twigs", now called "household fellowships") in private homes scattered hither and yon around the globe.(But the money still goes to HQ in New Knoxviille) If you are serious about attending a fellowship meeting, you can probably call or email them and request that information. Just remember, it's an MLM organization so they are not likely to let a sales prospect simply slip away. So, to answer your question about percentages, most active members are likely to live somewhere OTHER than New Knoxville.

Is it just me or did anyone else see some irony in the station's call letters?

I don't know alot about it but, from what I have seen, The original resembled the same format as a video game.(Except it's played with a rather large deck of specialty cards.) Certain characters have more power than other or special powers unique to them. You play them against each other much like a low tech version of a video game. I could be wrong about that but that was the impression my not so inquiring mind arrived at when it first hit the market. I can't for the life of me understand why kids would want something that is less high tech than what is already available. Is the hand held version more similar to the card game or does it more resemble the action packed video stuff?

Once again, you have distorted the essence of my post. I myself have made positive statements about my experiences in The Way. However, in doing so, I did not discount or deny the "less than positive" experiences that others have had. I have, however, stated that it is my opinion that the cost of those experiences was far too high. If you will get honest with yourself, you will see that this discounting type of attitude is what some find objectionable, more so than recounting a positive event. And since you skirted the issue regarding the difference between public and private, allow me to restate the obvious. This is a public place (to visit) but participation is privately controlled.

What did the Sadist say when the Masochist said "Hit Me!"? NO!

Wow! You've stumped me on this one. It doesn't sound even vaguely familiar.

Yes, I agree that people should be "held accountable for things they do and say on the internet" GSC is, indeed, a public place in that virtually anyone with a computer can access these pages for perusal. Participation here, however, requires that one subscribe and follow the rules, both in letter and in spirit. That means that, even though GSC is "public" in terms of visibility, activity here can be controlled "privately" by the operators of the site. It also means they can "hold people accountable for things they do and say" as participants. As the proprietors, they are within their rights and they have the power to do so, much as the proprietor of a privately owned theater has the right to insist that disruptive speech, such as calling, "FIRE!" or open solicitation be prohibited. IMO

A large part of TWI's activity was based on recruitment through door-to-door witnessing, mall witnessing, public recruitment meetings (called Public EX.'s) etc. For that reason, there was a sense of animosity (for lack of a better word) by the locals toward TWI. Add to that the fact that TWI "members" had a tendency to be condescending toward locals because, as far as they were concerned, the locals were not part of "the one true household". There are local churches in the area but, again, the coexistence is/was a strained relationship. TWI claims that one can not become a "member" because you are supposedly free to come and go. Thus, they supposedly keep no membership files. That whole line of reason is a twisted sense of nonsense as they closely monitor attendance and financial offerings. The whole object is to bring more and more recruits into the fold who will thus bring more income to the organization. It's "required" that you give at least 15 to 20% of your gross income(last estimate I heard) to be considered in good standing. So, It's hard to hide your involvement and actively sell the "product" at the same time. Members will sometimes resort to what I consider a form of deception to lure in recruits. Young, single members will feign romantic interest in a recruit to lure them to fellowships where they will be "love bombed" and made to feel special. Then the indoctrination begins

You are not using the wrong phrases. The thing you have to understand about a cult is, that, unlike a conventional church, it's not a "worship on Sunday" kind of thing. It consumes your every minute, 24/7---365. It is at the center of everything you decide, such as what kind of car to buy (can I fit all the A/V eqt. in the trunk?) to the apartment you rent.(Will there be enough off-street parking for fellowship attendees?) to the job offers you consider.(Will I be required to work hours that conflict with ministry functions?) And yes, a "splinter group" is one that has spun off of TWI but has maintained the same essential tenets and practices. There was a "splinter" group in Central Ohio that split off as early as the early 1970's .On his web site(The Writing Machine) Christian Cloud Abraham talks about what it was like to have to move from city to city as his mother was reassigned every year or so.

PLAF (The Wonder Class) The Biblical version of Pet Rocks. http://www.virtualpet.com/vp/farm/petrock/petrock.htm

Hi, bucks4now I drifted away in about 1990 or '91 so I really can't address that era. One thing that is important to understand is that these abuses do not represent what typically happened on a local level. In fact, until I started frequenting GreaseSpot, I was unaware of most of this myself. From the standpoint of awareness, one could probably draw some parallels to the Catholic Church. In other words, the vast majority of Catholic parishioners probably had no idea about the scandals that have recently come to light or at least the depths to which they reached. There is a young man who, having grown up in The Way, started a web site on which he reflected on his past. The site is no longer active but it is still accessible. You can get there through this link: http://www.thewritingmachine.net/about_author.php It's a very enlightening view of how a child sees all this on a day-to-day basis. The whole thing makes more sense if you view it as an MLM (which it was) than as a religious group.

Well, my point here is probably pretty obvious. Anyone who was actually an eyewitness to these events was dead and gone long before any of this was written. Imagine, if you will, someone in 2055 describing what happened at Rock of Ages '72. And, we have technological means of preserving history that obviously were not available during Paul's lifetime. One of the big problems I have with PLAF (The Wonder Class) is that VP gave the impression these events were written as they occurred. Either he didn't understand the importance of chronology or he just plain didn't give a rat's patootie despite his assurance that "The integrity of The Word is always at stake!" Either way, it doesn't shine a very flattering light on his presentation.

What was the average life expectancy at the time the Gospels were written? OK--I know there was no actually life expectancy, per se, but how long did the average person live?

Did someone say "drums"?

I think Wolfie ought to take it since he obviously knew the answer.

I just had this bizarre picture of ex-amway followers debating. "We had the best soap ever made" Did not! "Did So!" (Third part enters) Either of you guys ever actually use the soap? SILENCE---stage goes dark

Goin' Down Slow Anson Funderburgh and The Rockets featuring Sam Myers

Ry Cooder

Might that be The Boy From New York City by The Orlons?

Great Post, DL! I especially liked this part.

bucks4now It was a cleverly disguised Multi Level Marketing scheme. (MLM) At the heart of it was a "product" called Power For Abundant Living, a 36 hour long "class" that promised to answer all your questions about the meaning of life and how to succeed.(The vast majority of its contents were plagiarized from relatively unknown sources.) It used the Bible to give it a false appearance of credibility and sincerity. In reality, the "class" was a recruitment tool designed to enlist volunteers for "the cause".(Word Over The World) They(TWI) practiced manipulative mind control, thought replacement and behavioral modification techniques to extract commitment and devotion from followers. If you go to the home page, you can listen to the two podcasts about Losing The Way which will give you a peek in the window of one follower's journey. Also, while you are there, I recommend listening to The Law Of Believing: No God required. The so called "law" of believing is one of the core tenets of The Way. edited for this: Organizationally, they were supposedly structured like a tree. (ie: A person is a leaf, several leaves are a twig, several twigs are a branch(usually all the twigs in a city), several branches make up a limb (usually a state), a country is a trunk and all is designed to serve the "root" which was the headquarters (Int. HQ) in New Knoxville, Ohio. Almost all the money traveled a one-way path to the "root". VP Wierwille was the mastermind and ultimate leader. He set himself up to be "The Man Of God For Our Day And Time" (MOGFODAT) and claimed God had spoken directly to him in an audible voice, revealing nuances of the scriptures that had not been known for thousands of years, which were , for the most part, really plagiarized materials and even cleverly disguised propaganda from anti-Semitic groups and white supremacy groups.) And I actually bought into it----*sigh*

Close enough for this old hippie.