waysider

A Sunday Kind Of Love

The exact words, unfortunately, have been eroded by time. However, that was the message that was conveyed, not to me personally, but to a roomful of branch leaders, class instructors, etc., in an officially sanctioned "leaders meeting" by one of the Rev.'s Those types of meetings were not recorded for posterity like SNS as they were never intended for the ears of the general populace. On another occasion,(on tape, somewhere, maybe AC) when discussing the work of Bishop K.C. Pillai, Wierwille said the only problem he had with Pillai was that he STILL held to Trinitarian doctrine, as if to say(based on the context of the teaching) that one of the two of them had changed their position. I don't think there is any doubt that VPW was a Trinitarian at one point. The question is, when did he assume a monotheistic stance? As to the mis-speak: I asked why they simply did not do a retake once the error was discovered. I was told that these sessions were one time only events and the essence of it would be lost if it was redone. That's the kind of thing you expect to hear in a recording studio or movie set, not a class that is supposed to be about Biblical research.

I'm fairly certain he had a stroke. When he taught at an Ohio limb meeting in about 1980, it was apparent that something was amiss. His gait was unsteady and he searched for words that eluded him. My first impression was that he had a stroke. It was a packed auditorium so I'm sure someone else must remember.

Aside from Monotheism, what similarities really link Islam with Christianity? Islam is much more than a set of religious beliefs, it's a way of life.

Ok, I Think I see where you are going with this. Three major problems with this scenario, though. 1. You would first have to accept "believing" as a viable concept. 2. You would have to assume that wierwille was some sort of MOG, capable of garnering favors from THE higher power through use of said "law" of believing. 3. You would have to ignore the possibility that the POP paper was a fabricated piece of fiction designed to facilitate a coup d' etat. -----------OR---------------------- He was really just a run-of-the mill con man who happened to develop a horrible disease and die. Not a hard choice for me.

I don't really understand the question. The man had a horrible disease and it killed him. People in that situation frequently lose all desire to continue. I wouldn't equate that with suicide.

There is a place in PLAF (The Wonder Class) where Wierwille excitedly declares, regarding Christ's second coming, " He's coming back as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. He's coming back as Lord God Almighty!" This class was filmed in 1967. To my thinking it appears he held a Trinitarian belief at that time. Then, in the early 1970's, as VP was beginning to promote his JCING theology, we class instructors were specifically told to gloss over that part of the session. We were told to put a spin on it and pass it off as a simple mistake due to "the intense excitement of the moment". Maybe it should have been called The Way Spinastry.

Here's one I can listen to anytime. Bill Evans----Waltz For Debby

Oh man!! Not long after this song came out (197x?), I was working night stock in a major grocery store. This song was in heavy rotation on the store's music system. I must have heard it a thousand times.(every night!!) (Another one they played to death was Down On Main Street by Jerry Rafferty) It just wouldn't be fair for me to answer this one.

Some "minor music" for Sudo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEzsPGHsi90 Here is the classical piece that provided the framework for Eric Carmen's All By Myself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RXnorFwfPA...feature=related And here are 'The Three B's" for Geo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gchIPjvIx6k http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHQmc4NF3hw

I have to go to work. Would someone like my turn?

Good point W.W. I don't think VP looked through the papers looking for victims. I think it was the other way around. In other words, if he saw someone he was "interested" in, he had their information readily available. It has been mentioned here on GSC that the CF&S class also contained a questionnaire which the instructor was supposed to collect from the students and place in a sealed envelope. The envelope was then sent directly to HQ. I confirm this to be accurate. There was no justifiably legitimate reason to conduct any sort of survey, much less one that did not meet validation standards.

The problems with TWI far exceeded mere doctrinal points. It was a convoluted lifestyle that was designed to support the whims of a select handful of upper level officers.

A group does not have to have theology at its core to be defined as a cult. For example, there is one very large, well known motorcycle club that satisfies the criteria that is typically assigned to cults. They have a very charismatic leader whose orders are followed implicitly. Their lifestyle is at odds with the lifestyle of the general public. BTW--- Has anyone other than VPW used anti-Trinitarian views as a defining criteria?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- New Tune: I'm going where the water tastes like wine We can jump in the water, stay drunk all the time -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That would be Going Up The Country by Canned Heat. It was "derived" from this 1928 recording by Henry Thomas called Bull Doze Blues.

Here's the Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Those_Were_the_Days_(song) Sir Paul produced it as one of the very first non-Beatle efforts generated from the (then) newly built Apple Studios

My personal opinion is that the male submitted "Birth to Corps" papers served the same purpose as a red herring in a mystery novel. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring_(plot_device)

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That's not off topic at all T. This was supposed to be a Biblically oriented class that we thought would enrich our family lives. Last time I checked, babies(and children) are a very important component of many families.

From the CES Doctrinal Issues statement, there is this: [Along this same line, Eve's mistake in Genesis 3: 1-5 was not that she "considered" the Serpent's words, but that she failed to compare what the Serpent said with what God said. To say that she should not have even thought about an alternative viewpoint shuts down healthy inquiry and the freedom to develop personal convictions. It is a subtle but deadly form of "brainwashing" and fosters unhealthy dependence upon teachers and tradition, often at the expense of truth and a "good conscience"] ---------------------------------------------------- From The Letter there is this: Perhaps worst of all, a golden opportunity to make known the Word of God, as it had not been known since the first century, was squandered. The Way. It was. What was it? First and foremost, it was, from about 1955-1987, the only place I know of where anyone could hear the amount of truth of the Word of God that we heard. Like I, you may know of some ministries that do teach some of these truths, but I submit that until 1987 there was nowhere other than TWI to find all of them taught as accurately as they were there. That is why The Way International stands out on the spectrum of Church history as an amazingly significant Christian movement. ---------------------------------------- Huh??? If it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, why do they now feel they must clarify that they disagree with what they were taught on 26 (count 'em) major doctrinal points?

It's been a long time since I've driven "The Emerald Necklace". At one time I actually lived right next to it. The thing is, it's not your typical city park that has an entrance and an exit. It's more like a scenic outerbelt that encircles the city. It's a Blvd. of sorts. The point is, many people travel this particular road for reasons that have nothing to do with the park system. I used it many times as an alternative route to and from work. So, the response "You're driving in a park" may be technically accurate but ignores the real situation. Ok, sorry----Back to the topic

I remember when VP used to state that the defining hallmark of a cult was that they believed in the Trinity. He, of course, was using that definition to take a back-handed swipe at those who opposed his "Jesus Christ Is Not God" theology. So, then what about cults that aren't even religious in nature? What makes them cults? I believe this theological criteria regarding The Trinity was just a smoke screen to hide the truth of what we were from us in plain view. We were a cult. Get it? A cult. Not because of our theological ideology regarding Jesus Christ being God but, more specifically, because we lived a lifestyle that typifies what one would expect of cult members. If we were "blinded", it was by VP's charisma and ability to hold a firm hand of control on his enterprise.

I believe what is being objected to here is not so much the validity or viability of saliva as a sexual lubricant, or whether Christians have sexual relations but rather the format in which it was openly presented and misrepresented as being relevant to Biblical research and teaching.

Out of the heart come the issues of life. This so-called "class" was a rare opportunity for the general populace of TWI to see what was in VP's heart. ----and we didn't even realize it at the time.

Yes, it's Time Of The Season by The Zombies. Here's a nice cover version by DMB.