waysider

I don't think she'll be getting an Oscar anytime soon. She obviously had been tipped off. (like with a "surprise" birthday party)

Maybe this is off topic, maybe not. People say the tone here (or whatever you want to call it) has changed. I've gone back to look at older threads and definitely concur. But there's more to the story. People have changed, the internet has changed, internet conversational styles have changed. I also visit a musicians site. I have only been going there for about 2 years but they have archives that go back to 1992. Holy Catz! If you look at some of the posts there from 1992 and then compare them to yesterday's posts it would astound you. Change is normal. You have to expect it. That's all I'm trying to say.

Here it is, lucy. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ng-the-way.html

2x post

Lucy First let me say how very sorry I am for what you have endured. It takes a lot of courage to come forth and offer first hand testimony to such a traumatic experience. There are probably some people in this world who would say to you, "Well, you should have told a teacher, a Sunday School teacher, a neighbor etc." But, I think, in your own mind, you know why that was not possible. For what it's worth, I never saw any of this activity either but it certainly confirms many suspicions I had through the years. Don't forget, we were never supposed to talk about things we suspected. We were supposed to "renew our minds". Predators have an uncanny ability to sense who will be an easy prey. They must have sensed that you would not. Have you spoken to anyone who is professionally trained to help with these things? Perhaps you might consider it. TWI I, TWI II, TWI III refers to the time frame you are referencing. TWI I, for example, refers to the years when VPW was at the helm. Mark----That comment was spoken to a poster here at VPW's memorial service

It's no secret. The man announced it in front of many people, with no stated expectation of secrecy. In fact, I believe it was his intent that it would be repeated amongst a select audience and thus lay the groundwork for practical doctrine. How in the world can you establish practical doctrine by keeping it a secret? So then what benefit can come of speaking out on the World Wide Web? Exposure. Plain and simple. People have a right to know they were deceived by a man that was not the man he pretended to be.

Hi, John I would like to address this issue of "brainwashing" I prefer to think of it as "thought replacement". That's not my term. It's a term I have seen in various essays, articles, etc. Most people who have never been in a cult tend to think of brainwashing as a process that turns its victims into zombie-like creatures. Maybe that's the result of the way Hollywood has portrayed it, I don't know. The Way actually encouraged people to subject themselves to brainwashing, though, of course, it was not stated so blatantly. In PFAL (Which is the "foundational" class of PFAL, it is taught (in session #7 )that the Devil was able to deceive Eve because she, first and foremost, allowed herself to consider what he(The Serpent) was saying. That's the first step of a five step process that led to her downfall.(according to PFAL) So, even as early as the seventh session of the foundational class, people are being conditioned to accept what leadership tells them and reject critical thinking. In addition, one of the main goals a "believer" was to strive for was "likemindedness" on God's word. We must all think the same things. Of course, it's really just their particular version of God's word. There is even a class (Yes, it cost money to take it) that teaches how to "renew" their minds. (ie; all think the same things) One of the most fundamental beliefs of TWI is that there is an immutable "law" that dictates we control our destinies by our thoughts. Now, there are bits and pieces of truths laced throughout this but the simple fact is, you can not control events in the physical world (good or bad) just by thinking about them. TWI, however, taught that you could. (Does this sound like "The Secret"?) In addition, TWI taught that it was the "one true household of God". While you were in its fold, you were in a spiritual fortress of sorts and protected from the craftiness of "The Adversary". The inverse, of course, was that if you left the group, you were leaving that "hedge of protection". Heck, Just leaving the group could render you a "GreaseSpot" in the road by Midnight. Worse than that, the consequences of leaving extended to your family. So, even if you were willing to take a chance personaly, did you really want to risk the lives of your loved ones? This stuff all becomes very real and possible in time. That's part of what I(IMO) consider part of the "brainwashing".

First of all, did you or did you not make the statement? Secondly, I did not attribute it to "my thread", whatever that means. You said. I replied. Capeesh?

Perhaps you missed the fact that at least two posters were there personally when Wierwille made these statements. And I heard it immediately after the fact from another party. Why on earth would he publicly announce he had fondled his daughters? The burden of documentation is not upon the fondling but upon his public admission of such. I believe that much has been provided.

WD said: So all those who read accounts here and jump on the bandwagon declaring guilt because they agree with what was posted have no say. Cause I see very few first hand accounts the most rabid attacks come from people that were not there but have liked what they hear. It appears they think they have something to say My reply The incident I cited on the Losing The Way thread, which was carried over to the Toughen You Up thread, was not second hand. I was there. So was another poster here who corroborated the incident. That makes it a "first hand account".

I'm sure it must be painful to see a family member exposed for their nefarious deeds. But what are we supposed to do, change history and pretend it didn't happen? Wierwille was a public figure. He hurt many, many people. It's tragic he didn't consider that his behavior would have a negative impact on his family as well as the many people he exploited. That's his fault, not ours.

This is only second hand, so take it as you will. When the aforementioned Corps incident took place, someone else , who was there, told me the exact same details. But, this particular person used it as an example of how unlimited we are in our ability to renew our minds. I thought it was pretty creepy, too, that he would do this an then talk publicly about it. Maybe that's why I remember it

My apologies, Abi I did not mean to imply that I care to dictate what Oldies (or anyone) believes. I was merely using this to show that words can be cleverly crafted to say one thing and mean quite another.

And yet there is often a veiled rhetoric to his statements. For example, on another thread he stated that he now believes drugging someone to have sex is rape. Sounds pretty noble. What he did not say, however, is whether he believes it happened in The Way. It reminds me too much of the silly word games we used to play when Trinitarians asked us if we believed in The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

Sounds like it could be something from Jethro Tull. Not sure.

OK--First of all, I realize you were asking Sunesis, not me. Secondly, I'm not sure if you genuinely want to know the answer to that question or I'm misinterpreting your meaning. You can find some information on "4 crucified" on this link: http://gbarraxjr.home.insightbb.com/ You can also find info in some of Raf's work, as well. Oh yeah, VP definitely "lifted" the "4 crucified" stuff, photos and all.

Great post, Tzaia!

OM said: Here's a current problem as I see it: What happens when someone shares a personal experience that VP had sex with them. Ok that is a fact and should be believed. Then someone else posts that vp is an s.o.b. a con artist and a rapist. Then I post "my opinion based on the facts of this experience is that a rape was not committed." --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In such a situation, politely state your opinion and step aside. There is no need to belabor the point. Belaboring the point is tantamount to calling the person a liar. It is very hurtful. Stop and ask yourself, "Is this how I would want someone to treat ME?"

Geeze! Weren't youze guys payin' attention in session #7? Eve stopped to "consider" and the whole World went down the crapper!

Ditto

I found a typo in my Cambridge once. Does that count?

Hmmmm! That's not exactly the one I had in mind. BTW---How much gold are we talking about here?

On one hand, I don't think we need any more rules. But, on the other hand, I have a friend who could have benefited greatly from GSC but only posted briefly before being "chased off" by this type of activity. How about this? With some of these more sensitive and personal concerns, such as the thread on Losing The Way, we set a one post limit. Say what you have to say(pro or con) and then quit yer yappin'. Or, as my Dad is fond of saying, "Poop or get off the pot!" I also like the way that Roy and several others tend to moderate (or host) the threads they start. So, the "host" of the thread could politely remind folks they have already taken their turn. I still think The Golden Rule should be the standard, but, in lieu of that, those are my suggestions.