waysider

Geeze, I don't know, Mark. You have openly spoken of your connection with The Way. I haven't seen you trying to keep the old stuff alive or cash in on the past. My 2 centavos

Working 2nd shift actually has some perks, after all!

WD said: "Acceptance of the resurrection is a matter of faith those that do not believe in the Bible would not necessarily accept the accounts of the Bible. Fortunately we don't have to rely on scripture alone there are other proofs of the resurrection." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Such as?

Hey there, Moose guy I completely agree. These guys were grossly under-rated. This cut does not even come close to showing how great they were in person. I saw them in Cleveland, Ohio in about the same time frame at a bar called The Smilin' Dog Saloon. (W.25th St.) They did a version of Eleanor Rigby that featured the fiddle player. He used a tape delay device (revolutionary for those days) to replicate the sound of a string quartet. Thank you for bringing back some terrific musical memories for me. Here is link that has more info and some really killer "cuts". http://www.mckendreespring.com/site2.php Check out #10----Meet Me In Paris.

Mike Please forgive me if this sounds rude. Your one line catch phrases do not frighten me. Why do you think they should? They are simply catchy phrases that hold no real meaning. Wierwille was famous for this very thing, using such phrases as "It's always the integrity of The Word that is at stake." and "It's The Word, The Word, and nothing but The Word." What in blue blazes does that mean, anyway? If there is some sort of hidden meaning in these phrases you have presented, please, by all means, take any ONE of them and explain why you think it is true. Just explain it in your own words without using PFAL as a reference. VPW was a con artist, Mike, not a prophet or apostle or teacher or candlestick maker. He stole BG's class and used it as a launching pad to establish a pyramid scheme that allowed him to acquire material wealth and power. He derived sadistic pleasure in controlling and manipulating people and abused and debased women for whatever reason may have been in that twisted mind of his. He was a hard-core, chronic drug addict who lived a life of self delusion. These are not simply my opinions, Mike, they are documented realities.

When I Needed You------Little Eva

There were no witnesses to the claims CG made in POP, other than VP, who can't respond to them. RD's account, on the other hand, was witnessed by many people, including, but not limited to, his own family. Many years ago (late 1970's) a close friend confided in me that he had been confronted at his own front door by thugs from The Way who made it quite clear it was in his best interest to desist in speaking out against the organization. I believed then, and still believe, he was telling me the truth. At the time, I thought there must be some really profound or spiritual reason for the incident. Now it is clear to me that they were nothing more than lackeys, enforcers sent to do the bidding for their boss. They were the REAL" foot soldiers", blindly following senseless orders to insure the success and sate the avarice of their Commander-In-Chief, VPW.

So, was this the only part of JeffSjo's post that troubled you?

What facts are you having trouble understanding? R.D. has given very detailed personal information that recounts his experiences as he and TWi parted ways. Is that not enough for you? If you're not clear on the details, I'm sure you know how to correspond with him directly. Or, was it the statement regarding VP and his daughters? (I will point out that JeffSjo had the details stated inaccurately but not enough to change the essence of the matter.) Several people have testified that they were personally present when VP expounded on how he fondled his daughters' n!pples in a supposed exercise in sexuality awareness education. Did the fondling actually take place as Wierwille claimed? I don't know. What I do know, however, is that he(VPW) claimed it did. Keep in mind that this is something that was proclaimed in front of a roomful of people, not in some private conversation. And, as has been pointed out, he did this on more than one occasion so there must have been some forethought involved in his making these statements.

Having read the book, I feel compelled to say that the book is not really about the sex, per se. It's about the depth of abuse, manipulation and deception that permeated the lives and thoughts of people (such as VPW) who were supposed to be examples for us to emulate. The sex scandal was merely one facet of a much larger problem. I would recommend this book to anyone who has been affected by an abusive, controlling organization, regardless of whether or not they had ever been involved with TWI.

I believe you have totally missed the point here, White Dove. Or was that your intent? These are not factual matters, they are Mike's "opinions". They are being stated here as though they offered some profound insight. They are pure rhetoric being presented as "absolutes". Same old cr@p VeePeePee is so well remembered for. Consider this phrase: By continuing to focus on, repeat, magnify, and even exaggerate the negatives, then the opportunity to see the many positives is lost forever. Feel free to elaborate on why you consider that to be accurate.

I think it's a Who song. Don't know the title, though.

Very clever catch phrases, Mike. They are all unsubstantiated claims based on personal opinion. This is exactly the type of rhetoric that Wierwille mastered. Take any one of these "claims" and verify it with documentation.

This may be a bit off topic but here is a link that will show you what Jorma is currently occupied with. http://www.furpeaceranch.com/index.html

The focus here is on exposing TWI for the multi-level marketing scheme that it was. The negative aspect is incidental to the task.

Like a lot of other things, aspirin was not "officially" forbidden, it was denounced in an unspoken (and sometimes spoken) manner. It was linked directly to the "law" of believing. Admitting aspirin usage was an indicator of the level of one's believing. Thus, it was a "sign" to others that you had a weakness in your spirituality. Can't have any weaklings dragging us down now can we? So, much of it was a pizzing match, of sorts, to demonstrate your spiritual prowess. Those with a lower "quotient of spirituality" were often bypassed when "promotions" were being considered. I, myself, opted for a surgical procedure that I am certain affected my advancement options. (ie:"If you can't believe for your own healing, how can you be entrusted with God's people?") <_<

(I took the liberty of bolding that part of your post.) You have touched on an important part of TWI theology with this reference to imperceptibility. TWI teaches that although the spirit itself is invisible, or imperceptible, its presence can be detected via the 9 manifestations. You see, in TWI it was taught that if you are born again with the gift of holy spirit, you have an inherent ability to present proof of such in the 5 senses world. This is what is referred to as the 9 manifestations. Speaking in tongues is one of these nine as well as tongues with interpretation and prophesy. (forth-telling, not fore-telling) These 3 are the so-called utterance manifestations and as such they are perceptible. There are also 3 "revelation" manifestations. These are word of knowledge, word of wisdom and discerning of spirits. These are supposedly God's method of talking directly to you as an individual via the spirit inside you. Of special interest to this discussion is the manifestation of discerning of spirits. This is loosely defined as the ability to perceive the presence or absence of spirits, the ability to identify them and the knowledge and wisdom necessary to enact a course of action in dealing with them. In other words, TWI taught that spirits CAN be perceived.

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night------- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmtUaVR59Tc

The only thing I remember about trips to RC is how incredibly hard it was to stay awake. It's a wonder we didn't all wind up in a ditch somewhere near the state line.

" We will practice believing----------------------" :o There is nothing new under the grandson.

Louisiana-1927

Wow!!! All good stuff. Here's one of a slightly different flavor.

Happy Birthday, Dana!!

How about some work songs for Labor Day? 5 o'clock World http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHR_XxtCjpk...feature=related

Here are your tunes WG http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYWAYLZWZBg