waysider

In and of itself, probably not much, except it illustrates how TWI was always trying to prove they had some golden nugget of information that the average Joe didn't.

Tzaia asked this on the ARGOT thread: Who can put the most TWI buzz phrases in a single sentence? Winner gets a holy spirit dove pin (provided they can believe for a sponsor to make it available.)

Sure does sound like Cab Calloway but I think it might be Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. (The tempo is just a smidge quicker than any Cab version I have heard thus far.)

I, too, remember being told not to share anything "in-depth" with class prospects. This directive came by way of weekly twig leader meetings run by the branch leader who had gotten this directive from the limb leader, etc. We were further instructed to pass this information on to "our grads". Instead, we were told to tell them their questions would be answered in PLAF (The Wonder Class). It was just a sales gimmick, nothing else. It's called "create a need and fill it".

Just for fun, here's a nice cover of the old Julia Lee tune, Spinach Song And then there is this one, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_mHTJB2bs

Did you mean to say it wouldn't be "profitable"? ;)

A little birthday music for my neighbor to the east. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqqgqrbFdwM

Phil Regarding the non-sentient, pre-resurrection state: TWI taught that death is like being asleep. The time between death and the resurrection is like a mental blackout. This is based on, if I remember correctly, a verse in Ecclesiastes that says "in death there is no consciousness." It's not a dream like state, it's just a blank. In order to really understand this idea, you first have to understand the TWI concept of "the threefold man". The threefold man simply stated is this.---- [Component #1]When you are born, you have body. (flesh and blood)---- [Component #2] When you take your first breath, you have soul life. Twi teaches that soul life is nothing more than your breath life. Hence, your soul begins with your first breath and ends with your last. (This is the rationalization that was used to justify abortion.) According to TWI theology, every human being currently walking the planet has body and soul. However, TWI called them "empties floating by" because they supposedly lack the third and most crucial component, spirit. Now, this spirit is your own personal spirit and is given to you as a gift from God when you confess Jesus as Lord and believe that God raised him from the dead. (Romans 10:9 & 10) SIT is supposed to be the evidence that confirms the presence of this spirit. This spirit is the component that is thought to be eternal. So, when you die, your soul ceases to exist, your body becomes corrupt, (it decomposes) but your spirit enters this unconscious, non-sentient state, awaiting the return of Christ. The "perfect humanity" concept is a bit difficult to explain. TWI taught that "the life of the flesh is in the blood". This is from Leviticus. According to TWI, the "blood" component of a conception comes from the male. (TWI wasn't real big on referencing anatomy and physiology texts.) Since all the "blood" donors on Earth were contaminated through the original sin, Jesus had to have that part of his conception supplied by God to insure its purity. Furthermore, since they taught that he was a human and not Divine, it followed suit that he was both perfect and human.

Mike We are not trying to apply these definitions to ancient times. This is a contemporary subject, not a study of generations past. It is pointless to even bring those examples into the discussion. As for "Truth", even "The Word" as we know it is constantly being redefined as new discoveries are being made and new interpretations come to light. Even in TWI, there was an on-going process to refine and redefine the meaning of "The Word".

Unless you have invented some sort of time travel machine and plan to travel back to Biblical times, it seems rather pointless to consider what may or may not have qualified as a cult 1,000's of years ago. What we are looking at is the here and now, our lifetimes. So the question being addressed is "what, in our lifetime, would be considered defining criteria for a cult?" Truth is ever changing and constantly being redefined. It is not an "absolute" as we were led to believe in TWI.

I think it is fairly obvious that John did not intend this to be a black or white, all or nothing set of guidelines. Comparing TWI to this list, we can clearly see that many of the hallmarks that identify a cult were there. Note, also, that a group does not have to have theological underpinnings to practice cult defining behavior. There is a well known motorcycle club that many would consider to be a cult. Wierwille had no special Divine connection. He proved this himself by virtue of his teaching that a true prophet can never be wrong about prophetic matters. He referenced OT scripture to illustrate this. Yet, he was very, very wrong on countless points, not only regarding scripture, but also regarding Godly behavior. edit: Although VPW never declared himself a "prophet", he did present the indentifying criteria as being "one who speaks from or for God--- one who foretells or forth tells." This is presented in the PFAL class. He certainly represented himself to be "one who forth tells".

If "the real deal" came along, I personally doubt that God would encourage them to practice isolationism, hide scandalous behavior, appropriate massive funds for personal gratification, etc., etc., etc.

Claiming to have a Divine connection and actually having one are really not the same thing.

ITT is a "tech school". Different from a community college. At the community college I attended, we used to have nursing students come over from "THE" big state college down the road to take their anatomy & physiology 101 requirements because the classes were much smaller, had better lab sessions than the state school and were regarded to be the better value.

Here's hoping it's a good one!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!

The "freight train" line gave it away for me. That's Can't You See? by Marshall Tucker. I have to leave for work soon so I'm tossing my turn up for grabs. (If I'm correct, that is.)

Maybe this thread would be a more appropriate place to pursue that line of thought: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=18462

My brother-in-law has a PhD in Engineering. (He is a private consultant.) In the 25+ years I have known him, I have never heard anyone call him "Doctor" nor have I ever heard him refer to himself in this manner.

Was Wierwille really concerned with unearthing "The Truth"? Is there any real evidence to suggest so? So far, it's been noted he brought in Bishop Pillai to teach Renewed Mind (not a Biblical concept in the form it is presented in TWI) and Oriental customs as they supposedly related to Biblical times. (Also a subject that bears scrutiny) Any other examples of how he actively sought the assistance of non-TWI people to aid him in his effort to present "The Truth"?

I'm a bit confused by your reference to a "case" I've been tying to make and "documented proof". What exactly do you mean? Perhaps you could start a separate thread to address whatever that might be and keep this one focused on the topic at hand. You posted: and by the way Fellow Laborers was not the topic either but it did not seem to detour you from adding it to the conversation I posted this in response to your statement regarding "guest speakers". Please note that I have asked you to return to the original topic and start another thread. (unless you can show how this extraneous information is relevant to the topic at hand.) BTW---John's comment, that you have deemed off-topic, was clearly not intended to be the focal point of his position on the subject at hand. (IMO)

I certainly agree with you on that point. However, that line of thinking (the tithe being required) is simply not accurate in a Biblical sense. Wierwille held himself out to be a world class authority on Biblical accuracy. (" If it's not right, I'll tell you"---VPW) Either he wasn't the the authority he thought he was or he used common misunderstanding of the subject to satisfy his own agenda. Neither option sheds a favorable light on his work.

The subject of this thread is Tithing & the new Way of Abundance Class. If you want to start a separate thread to discuss the other matters, you are welcome to do so.(IMO)

Smart remarks? Is that what you think this is about? Tithing(quite a different thing than free-will giving) is simply not a requirement of the NT church or the church today. Yet, Wierwille, who promoted himself as being a World Class authority on the Bible, failed to acknowledge that and, instead, insisted it was an absolute debt that was necessary to pay in order to expect any kind of blessing from God. He was wrong. Plain and simple. List 100 speakers if you think it makes your point. It won't change the fact that Wierwille distorted the true meaning of the tithe in a way that would work to his material benefit.

That's it??? Bishop Pillai on "Orientalisms" and "The Renewed Mind??? Doesn't sound like a very extensive list to me. Maybe Pillai should have enlightened him on the real history and meaning of tithing, eh?

Such as---?