waysider

I'm a bit confused by your reference to a "case" I've been tying to make and "documented proof". What exactly do you mean? Perhaps you could start a separate thread to address whatever that might be and keep this one focused on the topic at hand. You posted: and by the way Fellow Laborers was not the topic either but it did not seem to detour you from adding it to the conversation I posted this in response to your statement regarding "guest speakers". Please note that I have asked you to return to the original topic and start another thread. (unless you can show how this extraneous information is relevant to the topic at hand.) BTW---John's comment, that you have deemed off-topic, was clearly not intended to be the focal point of his position on the subject at hand. (IMO)

I certainly agree with you on that point. However, that line of thinking (the tithe being required) is simply not accurate in a Biblical sense. Wierwille held himself out to be a world class authority on Biblical accuracy. (" If it's not right, I'll tell you"---VPW) Either he wasn't the the authority he thought he was or he used common misunderstanding of the subject to satisfy his own agenda. Neither option sheds a favorable light on his work.

The subject of this thread is Tithing & the new Way of Abundance Class. If you want to start a separate thread to discuss the other matters, you are welcome to do so.(IMO)

Smart remarks? Is that what you think this is about? Tithing(quite a different thing than free-will giving) is simply not a requirement of the NT church or the church today. Yet, Wierwille, who promoted himself as being a World Class authority on the Bible, failed to acknowledge that and, instead, insisted it was an absolute debt that was necessary to pay in order to expect any kind of blessing from God. He was wrong. Plain and simple. List 100 speakers if you think it makes your point. It won't change the fact that Wierwille distorted the true meaning of the tithe in a way that would work to his material benefit.

That's it??? Bishop Pillai on "Orientalisms" and "The Renewed Mind??? Doesn't sound like a very extensive list to me. Maybe Pillai should have enlightened him on the real history and meaning of tithing, eh?

Such as---?

Are there any SNS tapes that feature these speakers?

It Ain't The Meat It's The Motion

Eric Burdon

It's very important to realize that the people at the grass roots level, down in the trenches, going to local "twigs" are people just like you and me. Some of my fondest memories of TWI (The Way International) revolve around relationships I had with genuinely sincere people at the local level. But, the way TWI was structured, it was simply not acceptable to settle for status-quo. You had to be on an endless quest to reach the unattainable through a series of classes (which cost money), training programs (which cost money ++) and ABS (abundant sharing). [Abundant sharing, in a nut shell, means you give a minimum of 15% of your gross income to "The Ministry".] Ever heard the analogy of "the frog in the pot"? If you put a frog in a pot of water that is room temperature, it will swim about happily without concern. But, if you very slowly turn up the fire under the pot, the frog won't notice until it's too late for him to avoid being cooked. That's how TWI works. They count on the goodness of local "believers" to keep the pot at room temperature.

I have been out of the way for several years so my info. may be dated. The term "twig" is no longer used. They are now called "household fellowships". (Same product, new name.) Regarding the other matter: The Way teaches that "soul life" starts with the first breath and ends with the last. Hence, according to TWI theology, a baby is not "alive" until it takes its first breath. I don't know if they would directly advise her to have an abortion but their theology supports the concept. This is the sort of thing that would be best discussed with her directly. edited to note that I didn't see RumRunners response before I posted.

Steph The Way is/was structured like a tree. Each individual is a "leaf". Several leaves(3 or more) comprise a "twig". They typically meet in private homes. If you have several twigs in a geographic area, such as a city, they , combined, are called a "branch". All the branches in a statewide area, combined, are called a "limb". A country is a"Trunk". The "root" is the headquarters facility(HQ), which is located in New Knoxville, Ohio. Nourishment for the tree (ie:cash) travels from the "leaves" to the "root". However, it never follows a return route. Thus, the tree analogy is quite flawed. In other words, it's really a "pyramid scheme", sometimes referred to as "multi-level-marketing".(MLM) Here is a link to some vital information regarding the founder of The Way, "Dr." Victor Paul Wierwille. (He wasn't really a "Dr.") It may all seem insignificant to someone not familiar with The Way. To those who have been involved for any length of time, however, it may seem to be quite a shock. http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/vp_DEATH.htm

Here is the ultimate "Then & Now". It's world renown harmonica player, Jason Ricci. It shows what practice and commitment can accomplish. And, to illustrate what a down to Earth guy Jason is, note that he, himself, posted this on youtube. THEN NOW

I'm gonna kick myself for not recognizing what most likely is a Blues tune.

:eusa_clap:

Hi, Steph Welcome to our little coffee shop. I'm not sure why you would need to discuss The Way any differently than you have discussed any other serious topic. I suppose one caveat I might offer is that people who have been heavily indoctrinated by The Way tend to become quite stubbornly defensive of their beliefs and behaviors. I'm sure that reaction is not unique to Way followers, though.

Is that Warren Zevon? (Send Lawyers, Guns and Money)

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iUNgbOr...e2CkRAD93JGLI80 OJ Simpson was found guilty on all counts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Or maybe it is because speakers were invited to The Way Hdqts because of the audience size ,recording capacity, meeting space and other things that you small program did not offer. The fellow laborers in Kansas was not all that huge either. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We had recording capabilities at the Limb HQ (a former meeting and banquet facility) where F.L. nights were, in fact, taped just as SNS was. And so I ask you once again; who were these "speakers" and in what way did they expand our knowledge of the "Truth"?

Hang tough, Roy We all love you, Brother. (Holy Hugs)

Fold

That is a blatant attempt to distract attention from this: The record is clear that for some 30 years, after the point where John maintains that VP claimed he knew all the truth his actions did not coincide with John's claim VP clearly was learning more truth by inviting speakers to teach at whatever location. You made this statement: No one ever spoke in my area as a guest either not the point. It really is an important part of the point. Fellow Laborers was not just some dot on the map. It was supposedly a strategic component of the leadership development process, not just a remote group of "Joe Believers". Not only did we never have any guest speakers come in to expand our understanding of the "Truth" (your word), VPW himself never once spoke or even paid a visit to our program, despite your assertion that he would invite speakers to teach at "whatever location". Why do you suppose that is? Maybe it was because he had already closed the sale with us. He had a guarantee that we were already financially committed to supporting his efforts.

Happy birthday, young lady.

Can you name, let's say, 10 or 15? I mean, we're talking 30 years here! Ought to be an easy list to compile, no? I can tell you exactly how many guest speakers addressed Fellow Laborers (a two year, in residence program at a "whatever location") regarding Biblical matters during my time there. ------------Zero.

I dunno, Hammy Maybe 'the critics" are related to the famous "They" family. You know----"They" say this and "They" say that--- Or as Dr. John once said, "Who are "they" and has anybody ever seen them?"