waysider

I think there may be a bit of confusion over terminology here. If I understand this correctly, we aren't talking about keeping a journal, such as a diary. We are talking about what some people call "channeling". In this case, the one supposedly being channeled is God. Am I correct in that interpretation?

Some things that I found relevant as I watched the the CNN program: 1. The survivors commented on how certain smells, sights and sounds can instantly flash them back to an emotional state of something that happened 30 years ago. PTSD? I don't know. 2. They all said that, although they no longer had any use for organized religion, they maintained a sense of spirituality. 3. When they returned to the site of Jonestown, there was nothing left of all the hard work and dedication that had built the place. They hadn't really changed anything at all. It was all so totally futile.

I don't recall if it was in the MSN or CNN show, but there is a scene where he is firing up the crowd in San Francisco and he proclaims "I have the power of God because it's God in me. It's Christ in me,the hope of glory! Hallelujah!" And then in one of the on-line audio clips he starts speaking in tongues within the context of a teaching. Pretty creepy.

There was quite a bit of talk similar to this during the time of the bicentennial in 1976. (This was pre-Jonestown.) I don't remember it ever being directly stated. There was, however, quite a bit of thinly veiled innuendo and rhetoric. ("How much would you be willing to sacrifice for the movement The Word"?/ "Would you be willing to go to prison like Paul did?") There was talk about the group in OT times (though not actually in the OT) who took their own lives rather than submit to being killed by a group that was attacking their stronghold.(I can't remember the reference for that one off-hand.) Of course, the implication was that if you didn't have this level of commitment, you were a spiritual weakling. Can't be one of God's elite if you are a spiritual weakling now can you? Lot's of talk about what would happen if it came down to the Gvt. vs. TWI. Once in Fellow Laborers we had an emergency "mission" to destroy the metal mimeograph plates for the state newsletter mailing list "so a list of our names could never fall into the wrong hands". Quite a few of us had guns we kept at hand for target practice. Plus, we dabbled in survival mentality. We had a large garden where we grew the vegetable supply for the 50 of us. We had a mandatory food co-op, always ate as a group, and even built a root cellar for our root crops "just in case". I don't know if we would have ever been asked to kill anyone or ourselves but, the survivalist mentality was alive and well and being expounded to us by virtue of the lifestyle we lived. We were living in la-la land and didn't even know it. Not only did we not know it, we laughingly denied it if the subject was raised by outsiders. We were nuts. Who knows what we might have done? Just about the time I find myself being amused reflecting on it, I realize there was really nothing amusing about it. And the bigger question for me is whether VP&Co.(upper level leadership) might have gone the route of Jone&Co. eventually. Edited: (some day I'll lern how to spell.)

Has the KBI released them for public perusal?

I wonder how many pages they have on "The Cornfield Cult". :blink:

Mitch Mitchell, the drummer for Jimi Hendrix Experience, has died in Portland, Oregon at age 62. http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/13/america/obits.php

The answer is: Alright Now-----Free http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B2clFsLA3w Free Post!! Free Post!! Free Post!!

From Cliff Edwards (AKA: Ukulele Ike) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PufkuY-jEg4

I heard that back in my Way Daze. I think it's really just what most people call your "first instinct". I suppose there is some merit to the concept of not being overly analytical of your decisions but beyond that I don't give it much credence.

The Way has a long history of excluding speakers and teachers from outside the fold in matters relating to Biblical accuracy. Feel free to refute that claim with hard evidence or step aside so others can continue the discussion as it relates to the thread title.

There's really no need for sarcasm. You implied (made a claim by virtue of refutation) that documentation exists showing The Way bringing in outside speakers. Can you provide that documentation or not?

Haven't we been down this road before? Since you apparently have access to a tape log, why not simply list these speakers? Isn't it you who is so insistent on documentation?

Saw this bumper sticker on a car a few years ago: "Rush is right!"

The issue here is not a matter of which magazine predates the other. (Though it should be noted that I included the phrase "at least" in my post when referencing the year 1961.) What is at the heart of the discussion is who, if anyone, has a right to claim exclusivity to the name. Just for shirts and girdles, here is yet another group with a publication called "The Way Magazine". http://www.thewaymagazine.com/

I looked at the archives to find back issues of their magazine. The archive shows they published their magazine at least as long ago as 1961. Who'll be suing whom?

None of my ancestors had made the journey across the big pond yet.

I think part of the answer to that question lies in the concept of "One True Household/Hedge of Protection" doctrine. Engaging in conflict with the organization or with leadership was viewed as walking outside "the hedge of protection". It was a fear driven tactic. Opposition to "the ministry" was seen as opposition to God, himself. I wasn't around when the "grease spot by midnight" phrase was coined but the same idea was certainly present in the early 1970's. And, in the late 1970's I knew someone who publicly spoke out against The Way only to find thugs from HQ on his doorstep giving him a stern warning to desist. Another factor to be considered is the 'lock-box" practice. You certainly never wanted to bring problems out where the non-TWI public could see them. It's not too different from keeping what goes on in your own home private. Don't air your dirty laundry in public kind of thing. There was an unspoken understanding that it was inappropriate to let outsiders see "the ministry" in a less than positive light.

It is, indeed, "Alright Now". It's not The Doobie Brothers, though. Perhaps the artist name will come to you if you ponder it a bit in your free time.

Weak analogy. You are trying to compare a one time event with a daily life style.

Let me see if I understand this. You weren't at Jonestown ----but you KNOW what happened. You weren't at HQ-------- but you KNOW what happened. You weren't at Rome City ------but you KNOW what happened. You weren't at Emporia -------but you KNOW what happened. Etc., Etc., Etc. Now whose presuming to "become an authority"?

What point are you trying to make, WD? That The Way was not mind controlling cult? That the abuses that took place there were OK because they were of a smaller scale? People died as a direct result of TWI doctrine too, though the death toll was not as high as Jonestown.(AFAIK) Don't bother to tell me they didn't because I knew two such people personally. The Way was a dangerous cult. It was not a "religious experience". Unless you personally spent significant time living in a Way communal setting, such as The Way Corps or Fellow Laborers, you really don't know the full scope of what went on at that level.

Personally, I find the CIA theory to be unbelievable. Any scientific experiment, in order to warrant validation, must follow a regulated protocol. In other words, you can't just toss various poisons to lab rats in some haphazard fashion and expect to draw conclusions that have any real value.

If you are suggesting that TWI HQ was some sort of modern day Camelot, your efforts are futile. Too many people who actually lived there can offer a far more realistic observation of what it was really like.

Perhaps some unanswered questions in New Knoxville as well.