waysider

Gee, Mike, I'm corn-fused. If there is no contradiction, what seems to be the problem?

How shall I put this delicately? Some are---well---no longer amongst us. We ain't gettin' no younger----Know what I mean?

Hi, Mike You've piqued my interest. Can you elaborate why you've deduced that wierwille's verbal teachings contradict his writings? If you don't mind, would you cite some specific examples?

Lester Butler and The Red Devils

Especially if they're "giving you the eye".

Bang the drum, Dude. Have a great birthday.

So then your stance is that "God taught VPW what to put in print". Kinda makes me wonder why God would have taught him things that have been shown, time and time again, to be inaccurate and then had him commit them to print. One would think it would have been just as easy, or easier, for God to show VPW things that WERE accurate and have him commit them to print. Why would God view promotion of inaccuracies regarding His word as a solution to any sort of problems traditional Christians might be faced with?

I remember it too---just don't remember the exact session or paragraph or date or Way Mag issue or SNS # or whatever. That's not the point anyway. The point is he said it------- and several of us remember it.

Are you referring to this? "We can not know anything about the spiritual world by way of the senses."? (page 24) Last time I checked, the mind was in the realm of the senses. So then how can "your spirit teach your mind"? And, more importantly, how does Romans 10:17 (in any way, shape or manner) prove that "your spirit teaches your mind."? The whole class is so filled with contradictions and unsubstantiated claims, it has no merit or value.

Page 8/ AC syllabus The Great Principle God's Spirit teaches His creation in you which is now your spirit and your spirit teaches your mind. Then it becomes manifested in the senses realm as you act. Contrast that to: Page 270/ PFAL Spiritual things can only be known by the spirit So, if spiritual things can only be known by the spirit, how does your spirit teach your mind? Page 270 states that faith spans the chasm between natural man and God. "The bridge is faith". It goes on to cite Romans 10:17----"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" Maybe I'm missing something. How in heaven's name can this verse be interpreted as specifically meaning that your spirit teaches your mind?

The whole mantel discussion is extraneous to the original question regarding the viability of GSC. But, since we are exploring that avenue, has anyone else seen the ludicrous hypocrisy in all the pomp and circumstance assigned to the event by an organization that so vocally criticized the ritual ceremonies of other religious groups? Oh, yeah, if it's Catholicism involved, it's damnable but, since it's "the one true household", everything is just peachy. Riiiiight.

So then, if we are to believe the 1965 date, that means that for 23 years, VEEPEE never mentioned it to his own wife. An incident that was supposedly of an unprecedented magnitude. Then, when he decided to reveal it, he chose a public audience to do so. And, if the snowstorm was only for his own benefit, he would have betrayed his trust in revealing it at all. I don't buy it.

HQ is "holy ground". I haven't been there for years but it is my understanding that I would not be welcome to attend a service unless I met specific criteria, such as regularly attending fellowship meetings and abundantly sharing (ABS) which is giving over and above the required 10% of gross income to the organization. That is not an invitation that is glibly extended.

Curiosity got the best of me so I googled. I had never heard this song before. I must say, though, after hearing it on youtube, I do agree it's a good tune.

More Criss Angel--

The answer to that would be purely speculation on my part. I can tell you, though, "date and switch" is a specialty of The Way. (I'm speaking from personal experience.) There are lots and lots of people here who could relate personal experiences involving the practice. They have even been known to use sexual favors to "close the sale" The ultimate reason for bringing anyone into the fold is so they can become a contributing member. (ie: give them 15% of your income.) They frown heavily on members associating with non-members unless it is to entice them into the organization. I have been out for nearly 20 years but when I was in, it was unheard of to marry a non-member. In fact, it was practically taboo to even date someone who was not involved with The Way.

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...c=16948&hl=

Kinda makes me wonder if people, 2,000 years from now, will consider The DaVinci Code part of the Biblical Canon.

Talk about theatrics----

CBS has a popular show called The Mentalist. The lead character is someone who once made his living pretending to have special powers. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/the_mentalist/about/

I voted for #5, he made it up, though I don't think that exactly reflects my opinion. What I actually think is that he heard a similar story somewhere and made up his own version to personalize it, much like the story of his preaching to the trees that originated, in essence, from an incident that Billy Graham recounted of his own personal experience.

Cuyahoga Sheriff's Office Lays Off 21 Employees http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28471857/

Those are tough questions Mr. B I really don't think there are any "one size fits all" answers. You may have a slightly different perspective on this because, being a wayfer kid, you didn't join The Way by choice. Part of what the current generation (not just wayfers) may have a hard time understanding is the social culture that existed in the 1960's. Many of us were driven by a desire to make the World a better place. Serving the organization (The Way) was viewed by some as a spiritual equivalent to joining The Peace Corps, a way to make a difference and please God simultaneously. Instead, we unwittingly became pawns in a second rate pyramid scheme.

Circular logic in action Here we are exploring the difference between revelation and phenomena using what as a point of reference? The advanced class texts. Not scripture. Nope. Some man made definition. Is there somewhere in the scriptures where a line of demarcation is drawn separating the two? How about the definitions for word of knowledge, word of wisdom, etc.? What about "The Great Principle"? All man made, not to be found in the scriptures per se. And those man made definitions and the great principle (and Chart) didn't even originate with wierwille in the first place. He took them, word for word, from another source (was it J.E. Stiles?) who he blatantly neglected to credit in order to bolster his image of one who had privileged information that hadn't been known since the first dish of millet was served. How do I know wierwille's alleged snowstorm incident should be technically classified as phenomenon, not run of the mill revelation? Simple. Wierwille said so.

Hiya, B-man First, let me say---Happy Birthday! Can't people who left The Way years ago find help elsewhere? Of course. And some people should. What is there to say that hasn't been said? I'm not so sure it's all about what people have to say as it is about what people still need to hear. New people arrive on a regular basis who are totally in the dark about what happened. The people in The Way today know what's on Greasespot. It doesn't phase them. They've heard it all, even the young people. That is, indeed, a disturbing thought. Lots of us "old-timers" had no idea what was going on during our involvement. But, to be fully aware of the perverted nature of the organization and remain involved is a telling testament to their hold over people. Is this just a site where people can just feel like they are doing something? In my opinion, the answer to that is "no". Many people who come here have pieces of the puzzle missing that they need to find in order to understand what it is that happened all those years ago. Personally, one of the things that bothered me for a long time was a sense of guilt for leaving what I thought was the one true household. I felt like I had disappointed God. Now, I know that those feelings are unwarranted. What I left was a cult, not some spiritually elite organization with special ties to the Divine.