waysider

Those are tough questions Mr. B I really don't think there are any "one size fits all" answers. You may have a slightly different perspective on this because, being a wayfer kid, you didn't join The Way by choice. Part of what the current generation (not just wayfers) may have a hard time understanding is the social culture that existed in the 1960's. Many of us were driven by a desire to make the World a better place. Serving the organization (The Way) was viewed by some as a spiritual equivalent to joining The Peace Corps, a way to make a difference and please God simultaneously. Instead, we unwittingly became pawns in a second rate pyramid scheme.

Circular logic in action Here we are exploring the difference between revelation and phenomena using what as a point of reference? The advanced class texts. Not scripture. Nope. Some man made definition. Is there somewhere in the scriptures where a line of demarcation is drawn separating the two? How about the definitions for word of knowledge, word of wisdom, etc.? What about "The Great Principle"? All man made, not to be found in the scriptures per se. And those man made definitions and the great principle (and Chart) didn't even originate with wierwille in the first place. He took them, word for word, from another source (was it J.E. Stiles?) who he blatantly neglected to credit in order to bolster his image of one who had privileged information that hadn't been known since the first dish of millet was served. How do I know wierwille's alleged snowstorm incident should be technically classified as phenomenon, not run of the mill revelation? Simple. Wierwille said so.

Hiya, B-man First, let me say---Happy Birthday! Can't people who left The Way years ago find help elsewhere? Of course. And some people should. What is there to say that hasn't been said? I'm not so sure it's all about what people have to say as it is about what people still need to hear. New people arrive on a regular basis who are totally in the dark about what happened. The people in The Way today know what's on Greasespot. It doesn't phase them. They've heard it all, even the young people. That is, indeed, a disturbing thought. Lots of us "old-timers" had no idea what was going on during our involvement. But, to be fully aware of the perverted nature of the organization and remain involved is a telling testament to their hold over people. Is this just a site where people can just feel like they are doing something? In my opinion, the answer to that is "no". Many people who come here have pieces of the puzzle missing that they need to find in order to understand what it is that happened all those years ago. Personally, one of the things that bothered me for a long time was a sense of guilt for leaving what I thought was the one true household. I felt like I had disappointed God. Now, I know that those feelings are unwarranted. What I left was a cult, not some spiritually elite organization with special ties to the Divine.

Forgot it? No, I don't think so. Note carefully that when I quoted you, I included the words "Contrary to my my previous ten years,etc." Had I wished to distort your position, I would have ignored that qualifier. Your words, not mine. "Contrary to my previous ten years of ministry investigations, these last ten years have TOTALLY ignored all other information (especially the negatives) on Dr’s ministry, no matter who offered it." Having done all -------STAND! (And keep that ABS flowing, I need a new Harley.)

----------If you don't stop drivin' that---------HOT ROD LINCOLN! (Would someone like my turn?)

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...=13955&st=0

Pork and kraut Pork because a pig roots forward in search of food. Never chicken because they scratch backward. Oh, did I mention beer? Yeah, the pork MUST be accompanied by beer. Just because.

Congratulations! You have successfully demonstrated your mastery of session #7. (Never allow yourself to think critically or "consider", lest the boogie man should get to you like he got to Eve.)

http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=405

Wierwille himself taught (don't remember which class) about a guy who went to a large, busy train station and supposedly "believed" for God to tell him where to find his wife who was arriving on a train about which he had no scheduling information. According to wierwille, the guy found her immediately amidst the thousands of other arriving passengers. Supposedly, God gave him the specifics. Did the guy speak in tongues? No. Wierwille used this supposed event to illustrate the power of his magical "law of believing". It flat out contradicts his assertion in the AC that SIT daily is a prerequisite to revelation. (Key #3 to walking in the spirit) Chemistry 101 is a prerequisite to Chemistry 201. If you place someone in 201 without the prerequisite of 101, you have made an exception. If God did something like that with SIT, it would be an exception and therefore make him a "respecter of persons". And before we get a volley going about "conditions, not persons". wierwille already stated what he claimed were "the conditions"----No SIT daily/ no revelation. And again I pose the question-----When did wierwille supposedly receive the revelation associated with the gas pump story? When did he say he was "led into receiving the holy spirit?

So then, what, God can't talk to anyone unless they initiate it? "Hey, God, I'm going to the grocery store. Is anyone gonna T-Bone my car at the intersection of 12th St. and Vine"? "Sorry, God, I haven't taken the class yet so I don't SIT." Keys To Walking By The Spirit page 10 15. Watch and be ready. Revelation may come at the most likely or unlikely places and times. Yeah, I forgot. OUR speaking in tongues was different----We were "The Best".

Delusions and deceptive fabrications are seldom noticed by bystanders when they are still in the conceptual stage. :) Page 5 Word Of Knowledge "The manifestation of Word of Knowledge is your operation of the God-given ability whereby you may receive from God, by His revealing it to you, certain truths or facts concerning any situation about which it is humanly impossible for you , by your five senses, to know anything." Sooooo-- Looking at it from a strictly semantic angle, why couldn't phenomena be considered a form of revelation? Ya know, like a Poodle (such as CoCo) is still a dog. It's just a specific kind of dog. Didn't wierwille teach that God speaks to you within the framework of your personal understanding? Oh, wait. Then there's that part about"your operation". Well, wierwille taught that phenomena could be distinguished from ordinary miracles because it involved something that wasn't promised. Ergo, "your operation" in the matter is you telling God to give you a specific kind of sign that wasn't promised. His "revealing" it to you is revelation. Get it? revealing---revelation? Of course, this is all contingent upon the entire concept being valid in the first place. And, if we assume it must be valid because it is part of the revelation that God gave wierwille that hadn't been known since Paul was sprouting Mung Beans, we will be sorely disappointed because the definitions for the manifestations found in the AC syllabus were lifted verbatim from another source that seems to have evaded any sort of bibliographical mention in the class texts. Maybe if I SIT much it will come to me while my mind has turned off that part of the brain that is anesthetized while glossolalia is in progress. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia Neuroscience In 2006, at the University of Pennsylvania, researchers, under the direction of Andrew Newberg, MD, completed the world’s first brain-scan study of a group of individuals while they were speaking in tongues. The study concluded that while participants were exercising glossolalia, activity in the language centers of the brain actually decreased, while activity in the emotional centers of the brain increased. During this study, researchers observed significant cerebral blood flow changes among individuals while exercising glossolalia, concluding that the observed changes were consistent with some of the described aspects of glossolalia. Further, the researchers observed no changes in any language areas, suggesting that glossolalia is not associated with usual language function. [21] [22] [23] "ninny-sense"---

Amen, Brother, Amen!

Personally, I think the closer we examine what we were taught, the more the contradictions become apparent. Buy,hey, that's just my opinion.

Tired of watching the ball in Times Square drop? http://www.walleyemadness.com/

From Page 42, 43--Born Again to Serve. "Rev. Wierwille said the following of his days in Payne: (1941-42?) And the sun was shining brightly. It was in the fall of the year. Gorgeous. There wasn't a cloud in the sky. And just on the inside of me it seemed to say, "Well, just say to the Father, "Well, if it'll just snow right now, you'll just know that this is God talking to you.'" Cause you see. I'd never had much experience with God's talking to me. And this business of His saying to me, just as audibly as I am speaking to you, that He'd teach me the Word if I'd teach it, sort of shook me. I'd been expecting to hear from heaven for a long time, but I hadn't heard that way before. Oh, my ears were perhaps clogged up. Since that time I've heard a lot of things from Him. And I said, "Lord, to know that this is true, I'd like to see it snow." And I opened my eyes, and it was pitch-black, almost pitch-black outside, and the snow was falling so thick. I have never seen it fall that thick since that day. And I sat in that little office, and I cried like a baby. Because I guess it was about my time to cry because I'd grown up but I didn't know the Word. And from that day on since He promised He'd teach me the Word, I have tried with all my heart to learn this Word. Rev. Wierwille never told anyone of this experience until much later when he was teaching The Way Corps. It was a most astounding phenomenon which he kept to himself. ------------------------------------------------------------- Now from page 10 of the Advance Class syllabus: Keys To Walking By The Spirit 3. Speaking in tongues daily is prerequisite to revelation. --------------------------------------------------------- When did VP say he was led into tongues? Was he speaking in tongues daily when this happened? and Remember how he taught in the Advanced Class that you can't dictate the terms of revelation or phenomena? Yet, here he is, telling God to make it snow. Maybe he should have sat through the class a few more times himself.

Oh, I don't know. Where else can you go to find "59 ways to serve millet"?

Well, like I've said before, they might be perfectly nice people. I really don't know. I guess I just don't understand why someone would want to bake a new cake using an old recipe that calls for ingredients which are known to be toxic. I mean, if you're baking cookies and the directions say"toss in some arsenic", does it not seem to be a cause for alarm?

Oh, yeah, I heard the exact same thing. In fact, that might even be an exact quote of what I heard. (or pretty darn close) Even admitting you we're THINKING about retirement funds was seen as a sign of negative believing. Instead, you could be investing that money in a ministry that could do something worthwhile with it. You know, like buy Harleys, jets, hunting & fishing gear and trips-------

Brent maintains he did nothing "wrong". Well, let's see-----he laid in bed with naked under-aged girls and told them it was a "spiritual" experience. Where have I heard that line before?

I believe it was Firesign Theater who once posed the question, "How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?"

Freddie Hubbard

Hi, sunballer15 Welcome to GSC. Here is something from their site that describes their goals: To Fearlessly Pursue an Understanding of these Principles: 1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness. 2. Receive training in the whole Word so as to be able to teach others. 3. Physical training making your body, the "vehicle" of communication of the Word, as vital as possible. 4. Practice believing to bring material abundance to you and the Ministry. 5. Go forth as leaders and workers in areas of concern, interest and need. You may or may not recognize those as being the old Way Corps principles. Speaking only for myself, I find principle #4 to be quite alarming, given what is now known about the true nature of "the law of believing". Equally alarming is the "material abundance" that was amassed originally by the efforts and sacrifices of the thousands of people who unwittingly participated in what amounted to a multi-level-marketing scheme. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/radio/...ohn-juedes.html http://www.greasespotcafe.com/main2/editor...god-needed.html http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=18902 It's also alarming to peek in on the dubious origins of PFAL, the class that started the whole ball rolling. http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=277 edited for typos and clarity

Names People have varied reasons for using or not using real names. I prefer not to ask what their reasons are. The Way Corps site is closed corporation. You can't wander about the site unless you were WC or had a close relationship, such as a spouse or child. And that is fine with me. I have no desire to go there other than to perhaps find out "whatever became of (fill in the blank)"? If someone on that site is , for example, seeking employment or a business loan, a google search is not going to link them to a cornfield cult with which they might rather not be publicly associated. Lots of companies have sites that restrict access to "employees only". They're sometimes called INTRA-net. If one is not an employee or agent of such a company there is no reason for them to be there. This site is different. Anyone can walk in off the street, so to speak, and access all sorts of information. You don't need to log in or even join unless you want to actively participate (ie: post, PM, etc.). The open aspect of this site serves an important role in providing people with a place where they can freely and anonymously access information that might otherwise be buried.