waysider

Tainted----To contaminate morally. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tainted QUOTE (oldiesman @ Jan 15 2009, 02:17 PM) * If sin taints truth, I suppose there'd be no bible, no teaching, no preaching as well because all have sinned. waysider replied: If sin didn't taint Truth, there would be no reason for the admonition to be "beyond reproach". Used in a sentence: Wierwille's reprobate lifestyle tainted (morally contaminated) the validity of his snowstorm claim. Reproach---To be a cause of blame or discredit to. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reproach I Timothy3: If a man desires the office of a bishop------------------he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. Used in a sentence: Wierwille's reprobate lifestyle has brought reproach (is cause to discredit) to the validity of the snowstorm claim.

Ya know, I'm just wondering. If PFAL is our only rule of faith and practice, how does that affect the monetary value of the thousands of SNS tapes that don't deal directly with The "Orange"Book? I hope the ebay crowd doesn't get wind of this. It could plummet the market into a tailspin.

If sin didn't taint Truth, there would be no reason for the admonition to be "beyond reproach".

I guess it's gone on too long.Someone please jump in and grab the next one.It's Lies---The Knickerbockers

God has a "budget"???

Do you walk to school or carry your lunch?

And that makes it true because-------?

This came up on another thread. It may seem like a doctrinal issue. It probably is. However, I think it also speaks to the credibility of the snowstorm account and thus has a bearing on things that are "Way related". We were taught somewhere (I think it might have been AC) that the difference between miracles and phenomenon is that a miracle involves something that is promised in "The Word", whereas, phenomenon involved something that was specifically NOT included in the promises. Both, of course, had to meet a criteria that dictated non-contradiction with the greater context of "The Word" itself. With that in mind, I seem to recall a teaching (by VPW) that set forth a more refined criteria for phenomenon, specifically. The premise for this teaching was Judges 6: 36-40 , the record of Gideon and the fleece. I'm not much of a Bible quoter these days but to expedite reading of this post, I'll go ahead and quote that section of scripture. ------------------------------------------------------------------ 36--And Gideon said unto God, If thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said, 37--Behold, I will put a fleece of wool on the floor; and if the dew be on the fleece only, and it be dry upon all the earth beside, then shall I know that thou wilt save Israel by mine hand, as thou hast said. 38--And it was so: for he rose up early on the morrow, and thrust the fleece together, and wringed the dew out of the fleece, a bowl full of water. 39--And Gideon said unto God, Let not thine anger be hot against me, and I will speak but this once: let me prove, I pray thee, but this once with the fleece; let it now be dry only upon the fleece, and upon all the ground let there be dew. 40--And God did so that night: for it was dry upon the fleece only, and there was dew on all the ground. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cutting to the chase, the essence of the teaching was that this was a "once" type of event and the "duplicity" of it established it as such. While it was (supposedly) available for us to "believe" for miracles, it was not available to dictate phenomenon based on the criteria set forth in this incident. Now, whether one believes this record, or even the Bible, for that matter, is really irrelevant to my point. Wierwille claimed to have ordered up phenomenon in like manner to Gideon. How does that fit with the concept of this teaching? Even more importantly, how does that affect the credibility of PFAL, "The Teacher" and, of course----- the snowstorm"? Any thoughts?

If God had wanted you to find Bullinger without PFAL, I'm pretty sure it would have been within his ability.

"I have a feeling this is brand new learning for most grads. Most tuned out this section of the class and book." What is your basis for that assumption? ------------------------------------------------ "This truly IS the greatest secret in the world today that PFAL (book and magazine form) is THE Bible and is the Word of God in written form." Absolute insanity. Why on Earth would God allow it to be so riddled with errors and inconsistencies if that were the case? ------------------------------------------------- "This knowing how the law of learning operates and how this thing works I came to the conclusion many years ago that for me this Word of God, this Bible--not the King James version, but THE Word of God which was given when holy men of God spake as they were moved by the holy spirit--that this Word of God is my only source for truth outside of the individual seeking." You criticized Mark for using the words "Bible" and "Word of God" interchangeably and yet, here you offer a quote that clearly demonstrates that Wierwille had occasion to do the same thing. ------------------------------------------------ "This is my primary and sole rule for faith and practice. This is why the law of learning operating the way it does and our knowledge of this I have to have some center of reference. For years I read around the Word of God; two, three theological works a week, every week. Because I just love to read and so I read and read and read. Well, these men were all centers of reference for learning and all I got was a hodge-podge of personal conviction but it was basically confusion. Because equally great men regarding the same verse of scripture would contradict each other." Did it ever occur to you that it may have seemed like a "hodge-podge" to him because he kept trying to squeeze things into his narrow frame of acceptance? ------------------------------------------------------- "On a different thread nowIsee asked where does the phrase “only rule for faith and practice” come from. In written form, it was the title of Dr’s very last Magazine article in 1985, but it originated (as far as I know) in the film class Session 7. Here is (with my bold fonts) the 1967 version that we all heard in segment 31 Session 7 of THE CLASS :" It has long been my personal opinion that session #7 was the crucial turning point at which the bait was taken and the hook was set. That's only my opinion but I think this gives that theory some credence ----------------------------------------------------------------------- "So, when I began to understand the operation of the senses in relationship to learning I finally came to the conclusion that instead of staying in confusion with all of men's opinions a lifetime I was willing to come to one point, one center of reference for truth which was outside of the individual seeking and that was THE Word of God. And I've staked my life on the accuracy and the integrity of God's Word. If this Word is wrong then I'm going to be wrong in what I teach. But I'm willing to take that "chance" as you would call it. As John Paul Jones or someone said "he's willing to go down with the ship." I'm willing to go down with the ship." And down he went (in credibility) because he staked his life on what he personally defined as "The Word", ignoring the reality that his take on it was flawed and rife with errors.

Picasso Dora Maar au Chat

Someday I'm gonna be happy But I don't know when just now > > > > > Some day you're gonna be lonely But you won't find me around

What you fear, you will receive-it is a law

I'm not a scientist------nor do I play one on TV. However, if one were to use PFAL as some sort of gold standard of Truth, the snowstorm is busted. There's an axiom in here somewhere, too, but I'm not a mathematician either. Maybe some math person could show the sequence in formulaic format. Somewhere in the PFAL series (don't know where, not inspired to spend my time searching) wierwille states that phenomenon can not be conjured up. In other words, according to the PFAL gold standard being used in this example, one can not tell/ask God for specific phenomenon. Is that Biblically accurate? I don't know. But (and this is crucial) it doesn't matter because PFAL, not the Bible, is being used as the standard of Truth for this argument. So, here we are in 1942. Wierwille tells God to make it snow. His action contradicts the standard that he, himself, has set forth for verification of truth. But it doesn't end there. Suppose it really did snow. That, by virtue of elementary logic, invalidates the section in the PFAL series that taught you can't control phenomenon. Thus, the gold standard has literally exposed its own fallibility. What does all that prove? It proves that, either PFAL is invalid as a standard of Truth, it didn't really snow, or both. I tend to think it proves both.

Believing equals receiving.

My peeve is with service related jobs that require you to say you took a lunch break whether you did or not. (usually not) And then weasel another hour or two a day out of you because they don't approve overtime but would hit the ceiling if you didn't complete the project you are involved in. Don't even bother pointing out the legalities involved.

I think it already did-----figuratively speaking.

The integrity of "The Word" is always at stake. (What the heck does that even mean?)

WARNING!! Off topic for this thread But----- I must interject that I most definitely saw people "kicked out". Early 1970s in Cleveland. Mainly people with mental health difficulties. One young lady (student) was escorted to the door during the "Christ in you" session and told to never, ever return. She openly (and vocally) questioned something that was being taught Was her behavior out of line for group participation?. Probably so, if you use Way standards to gauge appropriateness. But bear in mind that she was mentally ill and seeking help. Leadership claimed she was "possessed", being used by the adversary to disrupt the movement of Gawd's Word. At least 4 or 5 others come to mind as well, though their exits were nowhere near as dramatic as this one.

You did just fine, Roy. Holy hugs to you, Bro.

OK---One more clue. This group later hired future Way believer Barry McCoy to play keyboard before he hooked up with Gary Puckett and The Union Gap.

Sad----Truly sad

I noticed in session three, he scratched his nose 3 times with his right hand at 3 different points during the teaching. I think that means that his words in that session were completely, completely, completely blessed. Shhhhhhh!!------It's a secret. The DaVictster's Code Coming soon to a theater near you.

TVT's!!!! hahahahahaha More like BVD's. Thousands and thousands of people heard wierwille himself say this very thing in multiple formats, in a variety of paramutations. Does the thread have a "written only" disclaimer? Even if he hadn't, the line you quoted in it's place is blatently false as well. "If a man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant." hahahahaha