waysider

Differing methods? What, pray tell, might be these "differing methods" one might use to explain the errors in genealogy that Ham pointed out?

I think Mark's point is that both circles have equal radii and a common center.

Now, see? Youse guys just don't "get it". The flood involved WATER! This involves SNOW! Same basic substance but a much deeper "spirchal" significance. If only yudda been payin' attention in PLAF (The Wonder Class), yudda knowed that.

Dr. WW Your premise is interesting but has a philosophical, esoteric gist to it. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe you want to start a thread that approaches it from that angle. Just a thought. The ongoing discussion, on the other hand, is concerned more with examining the literal differences or similarities that can be derived from simply approaching it in a factual manner. Kinda like the difference between "throughly" and '"thoroughly" Wierwille try to give it an esoteric spin by saying one was more precise , complete and deeper than the other. In reality, both words mean exactly the same thing.

Couldn't you just " believe" the little boogers away? Everybody sing with me! All things are possible---only believe

"The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round 'round and 'round 'round and 'round"

28. Give us your money. (a)Expect it to magically replace itself and multiply.

It appears he was yanking Dr. Higgins' chain as well, by allowing her to think Bullinger was all new to him.

Thanks, Socks That is a very comprehensive summary. In my case, my copyrights involved music. When I copyrighted the pieces in 1969-1971, music copyrights were for a period of 28 years with an option to renew with certain restrictions. I chose to simply allow mine to go into PD. That 28 years has since been extended to the writer's lifetime and then some, as you have stated. Mary Had A Little Lamb is a good example to use in understanding PD. The song itself is in PD yet SRV was able to copyright his particular arrangement. Whole other ball of wax. Still, even with something that is in PD, you must give proper citation. Thanks for taking the time to search out all that info. edit It should be noted, also, that a person reading The Bible Tells Me So, for example, cannot be expected to know what was said in SNS# 214. Each work should have included its own list of citations.

It's irrelevant, Mike Between the time Wierwille plagiarized them and the incident from 6 years ago that you cited, the copyright appeared on the materials. I own several copyrights myself. They have all been in Public Domain now for several years. If you had used my materials, claiming them to be your own, between the time I copyrighted them and the time they went into PD, you would have been a plagiarist no matter how noble your cause. Incidentally, once a work has gone into Public Domain, no one can copyright it again, not even the author. At least that is my understanding of how it works. So, if these works were in Public Domain when Wierwille "borrowed" them, he had no business copyrighting them in the first place. edited for 2x post.

Geeze This is the same kind of logic found in the old joke, "all those not here, raise your hands."

I strongly disagree that it was "common knowledge" back in the 1970's. In fact, the four crucified work that he plagiarized was used (by PFAL instructors, per direct instructions from HQ) to demonstrate that someone else had independently and coincidentally reached the same conclusion . We now know that there was nothing coincidental about it at all. It was deliberate. Your insistence that God told him to "borrow" this from the original source proves it was not coincidental but deliberate. You stated: It was in the TVTs (Twi Verbal Traditions) that Dr supposedly got "divine dictation" as to what to write. And yet, you had just finished stating that his claim to fame was that God told him what to copy and even gave him the specific order in which to present it. I personally resent your constant implications that my memory (or that of many others here) must be defective. My memory is just fine, thank you very much. You're not the only person here who sat through this "class" time and time and time again. Plagiarism is not only a very big deal, it's against the law. But I suppose you rationalize that by assuming Wierwille was above the law. Even the fictional character, Harold Hill (The Music Man) was painfully aware he was not above the law with his own con games.

So now I suppose your spin will be that God was actually the author and he just lent it to Bullinger, Leonard, Stiles, etc., making it fair game for anyone, including Wierwille, to copy and use as they saw fit. Why did God bother with all these "middle men", Mike, when He theoretically could have cut Wierwille in on a wholesale deal? The man was a snake in the grass, just waiting to lurch out and pounce on his prey.

You can tap dance around it all you want, Mike. I have heard that tape several times. He carries on and on about himself and his vision to build the business. It's like a sales pitch to invest in an ISO. (Initial Stock Offering) "Get in on the bottom floor, folks, this venture is going to be big." If I recall correctly, I don't think he even cited or quoted one scripture that night. What kind of "sermon" is that? It was plain and simple preemptive obviation. It's a text book example of how we were taught to do it at Public Explanation meetings. He patronized the audience, backed up the hearse so they could smell the roses, and obviated what he anticipated to be possible objections. Whether it was in front of 10 people or a thousand is irrelevant. He stated these things in front of an audience and preserved them for posterity by having them recorded. That indicates to me that he viewed his presentation to be more than a fleeting one-time sermon. What is extremely relevant is that, at the time he made those statements, he was fully aware that he had already committed plagiarism. (past tense) Preemptive damage control.

Mike These aren't disclaimers. These are obviations to the skepticism he knew would be inevitable if and when people discovered his plagiarism. Guess where I learned this clever trick? Yeah, in The Way Ministry. Witnessing and Undershepharding if I remember correctly. The way it works is you bring up an anticipated objection and then address it before the other party has an opportunity to bring it up themselves. Obviate http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obviation edited On second thought, maybe we were taught that in Fellow Laborers. Maybe one of the other FLO remember that. It probably would have been the year that Howie Y. was there.

Mike said: I think you're leaving out a few things. At that time in the early 70's Dr was very open about not being original in his writing, and he was even quoted in Elena's book as having said so. We've seen that written quote posted here on this thread as well as a similar one in the posted transcript of the 1965 tape (later) titled "Light Began to Dawn." I myself heard him disclaim originality several times back then. He did claim, and in rather clear terms, that his guidance from God was mostly in what to accept and what to reject from his teachers. He did not hide his teachers' work from us at all, like your "secret compartment" paragraph might to some uninformed readers seem to be alluding to. I will add here that THE ORDER in which he gave us these materials was also guided by God. He put it together in a certain order that was best for us. ********************************************** I hope you're joking if you consider that "hard evidence".

Such as?

Advise from a man who had no clue, whatsoever, how to honor his own marriage vows. His marriage would be the absolute last prototype I would ever try to use as a pattern for my own.

Just my opinion I think if he really wanted to address the issue, he would have come here and done so long ago.

Nice catch, Twinky.

Why do birds suddenly appear--------------------------?

Unless they are renting on a month-to-month basis and paying in advance, they have a financial obligation, otherwise known as a "debt". ( IIRC, Lincoln Park is in New Jersey)

Here is another program with similar goals. http://www.lionsclubs.org/EN/content/visio...recycling.shtml