waysider

I don't think we knew we were being duped. Even after all these years, there are still people who can't face that reality. We all do things and say things that, in retrospect, can be seen as hurtful, even damaging. Wierwille made a deliberate and conscious effort to do and say things he knew would victimize his followers. The pattern is very clear in hindsight. His intentions were laced with selfishness, greed and malice. I believe this "element of intent" is one that partly characterizes the vast difference between what VPW did and what we did. Our intent was to help others by promoting these ideas, such as the "law" of believing, misguided as they were. His intention was to help himself. He had to have been cognizant of the damage he was causing. He saw people suffer and die and gave no indication he regretted his culpability. He displayed no apparent remorse when one of his victims took her own life. He made no apparent attempt to repent or change his behavior in spite of it. He just didn't care. If he was, indeed, a victim of abuse, he willingly and consciously succumbed to its effects rather than work to overcome it.

I have moved this here from the "The Way Corps" thread. QUOTE (Watered Garden @ Mar 12 2009, 10:25 AM) * I think most WC were as much victims as anything, of the hype and false promises and lies that lured them into what they thought would be service for God. WG Bolshevik responded: "---but then these victims bring in more victims. Who in turn bring in more victims. Extrapolate back and argue vpw was a victim persuaded by the logic of victims before him . . ." *************************************************** So the question for consideration is: Was VPW a victim? How?------ Why?--------Of Whom?

I'm going to start a new thread off this so this thread stays on track.

Amen, Sistah!

Looking at their web site, I see they have Family Camps, Devotion With Motion, Campfires, and Advances. Nope. No similarities there. :blink:

Me too, Twinky. My comments weren't aimed at you in any way, shape or form. Sorry.

Here's to hoping it's a great one.

Here Come Da Judge!

Hey, TZ Maybe you could hit some of the local jams and do some 145 stuff, ya know? The old 12 bar blues. That's usually good for meeting local musicians. If nothing else, they're usually a lot of fun.

Read the context, WD. It's talking about living, breathing people, not dead cult leaders.

Unless I'm mistaken, no one really seems to be talking about disposing of bodies, necrophilia or the harvesting of sperm. Wierwille croaked a long time ago. People are now free to expose him for the drunken, sexually deviant, con man that he was.

Anybody ever hear BB King play rhythm? A lot of people have speculated that he can't play chords. Here is a rare clip that dispels that myth.

Like Wierwille once said, "If a man wants to be stupid, let him be stupid."

Exactly. That's why some of them become masters of ambiguity. That requires deliberate effort, demonstrating their cognizance of the fraud.

Sorry, Twinky I just meant an apparent desire to return to the "warm fuzzies" that some people have related to me. Like trying to believe in Father Christmas again, ya know? I'll stay out of here now.

Personal opinion disclaimer I think they know. They are con men at heart. Just like that guy who tries to sell you a car he knows was in Hurricane Katrina but conveniently neglects to mention it to you.

I have to be somewhat vague in my response because some of the specific decisions are just too embarrassing. I'll probably never share them here on GSC for that reason. But I can say this, some of the biggest ones ended in betrayal. Most of those betrayals were by people I should have been able to trust the most, people who claimed to represent God. I'm way past the angry phase. I just hope now that I can help to keep other people, especially my son, from being duped like I was. But, yeah. Lot's of it is about stuff I DIDN'T do more than things I did.

Maybe I'm a party crasher here because I was never in the WC. I was in FLO, though, so I have at least a vague concept of the program. HERE is the impression I have gotten from people who have described the site to me.

Yes, my feelings are linked to regret about poor decisions. The thing is, though, those poor decisions stem from me being too trusting. I thought I was a pretty savvy guy when I got into the Word. I was already an adult. But when I got in The Word, for some reason I reverted to an unexplainable state of naivete. Suddenly I found myself completely trusting people who I would have run screaming from in my pre-TWI days. My street smarts were telling me to wake up but the leadership tricked me into thinking I was the one who was wrong for all the "natural man" thoughts. I am much wiser now but almost 40 years has gone down the drain. Misplaced trust played a very big role. Is that kind of how you feel, too?

I'm not sure shame is the correct terminology. I, too, though, have experienced similar feelings. In early 1975, I moved out of my hometown as a direct result of a Way related decision. Due to a series of other poor decisions, directly related to my involvement with The Way, I never returned. I can't say my life is miserable. it's actually pretty good. Still, there is a certain sadness that comes with realizing I can never get back all those missed high school graduations, marriages, funerals, new births, watching the nieces and nephews grow up, helping my parents in their old age, etc. I guess melancholy would better describe it than shame.

Wierwille himself admitted to a crime when he spoke of the incident involving improper sexual conduct with a minor, though I suppose, in his opinion, it wasn't criminal. No matter, ignorance of the law is no excuse. There were several witnesses to his admission, by the way.

Hey, WD Do you have any business interests tied to all this controversy?

Cool stuff, spec! Sounds like a well balanced approach.

You don't ever have to be ashamed, Dot. Disappointed, perhaps, but never ashamed.