waysider

Africa---Toto Video is HERE FREE POST!

Wierwille wasn't fundamentally all that different from the fraudulent psychic mediums and mentalists of his day. Except, instead of claiming to be channeling the spirit of dearly departed Aunt Mildred, he claimed to be channeling the spirit of God Almighty, himself. God, after all, tends to lend a bit more credibility than dear Aunt Mildred.

Remember how wierwille claimed that Arthur Ford channeled a "familiar spirit" known as "Fletcher", thus proving the reality of devil spirits? Here's a paragraph from an article on Ford. *********************************** Ford's Hidden Archives After Arthur Ford's death, Ford's close friend and supporter William V. Rauscher and author Allen Spraggrett discovered Ford's collection of obituaries, newspaper clippings, Who's Who articles, etc. that Ford had hidden away. They were disguised as bound poetry books. Ford read his poetry before giving a reading. There was enough information to indicate that much of the famous Pike messages and others were fraudulent. There were many other things that Ford ordered his secretary to burn that are lost. Ford and his secretary parted company due to a falling out. Ford's secretary claimed Ford had no psychic abilities. The book Arthur Ford: The Man Who Talked with the Dead by Allen Spraggett with William V. Rauscher, New American Library, Inc.,1973 gives the whole story and is the primary source used in Alcock's book. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ford

One more clue: I stopped an old man along the way Hoping to find some long forgotten words or ancient melodies He turned to me as if to say, hurry boy, its waiting there for you If no one gets it by tonight, I'll post the answer.

What a sick and twisted place it became. I'm so glad I left when I did.

Here's more. I hear the drums echoing tonight But she hears only whispers of some quiet conversation Shes coming in 12:30 flight The moonlit wings reflect the stars that guide me towards salvation

BUMP http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.ph...mp;#entry185146

I've been in that type of situation. It's amazing the things you will agree to in order to take the pressure off. I probably would have confessed to being a potted plant if I thought it would help.

Well said Buff, well said.

Sean Costello---The Hucklebuck

To clarify my rambling in post # 21. (hopefully) How can you believe that people would have been ultimately "hurt some other way" and NOT believe they might also have ultimately received the information from another source? If kismet applies to one, it should apply to the other.

Good point, Oak It's an assumption. And you know what they say happens when you azz-u-me anything.

It makes perfect sense when you view "the ministry" as the money making business that it was. They have a product, PFAL, that they claim can lead people into wholeness, but, they have customers whose presence calls attention to the product's short comings. Get rid of customers who can't demonstrate how the product supposedly helped them. Bad business to have them around. What a loving bunch they were.

Here's a wacky thought that passed through my brain cell. If, on one hand, one applies the Calvinist "predestination concept" to rationalize that people would have ultimately been "hurt some other way", how, on the other hand, can they then dismiss said concept as it relates to the possibility of hearing the information from another source? ************************************* "In common English parlance, the doctrine of predestination often has particular reference to the doctrines of Calvinism. The version of predestination espoused by John Calvin, after whom Calvinism is named, is sometimes referred to as "double predestination" because in it God predestines some people for salvation (i.e. Unconditional election) and some for condemnation (i.e. Reprobation). Calvin himself defines predestination as "the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man. Not all are created on equal terms, but some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestined to life or to death."[4]. On the spectrum of beliefs concerning predestination, Calvinism is the strongest form among Christians. It teaches that God's predestining decision is based on the knowledge of His own will rather than foreknowledge, concerning every particular person and event; and, God continually acts with entire freedom, in order to bring about his will in completeness, but in such a way that the freedom of the creature is not violated, "but rather, established"[5] Calvinists who hold the infralapsarian view of predestination usually prefer that term to "sublapsarianism," perhaps with the intent of blocking the inference that they believe predestination is on the basis of foreknowledge (sublapsarian meaning, assuming the fall into sin).[6] The different terminology has the benefit of distinguishing the Calvinist double predestination version of infralapsarianism, from Lutheranism's view that predestination is a mystery, which forbids the unprofitable intrusion of prying minds. Calvinists seek never to divide predestination in a mathematical way. Their doctrine is uninterested, in the abstract, in questions of "how much" either God or man is responsible for a particular destiny. Questions of "how much" will become hopelessly entangled in paradox, Calvinists teach, regardless of the view of predestination adopted. Instead, Calvinism divides the issues of predestination according to two kinds of being, knowledge, and will, distinguishing that which is divine from that which is human. Therefore, it is not so much an issue of quantity, but of distinct roles or modes of being. God is not a creature nor the creature God in knowledge, will, freedom, ability, responsibility, or anything else. Calvinists will often attribute salvation entirely to God; and yet they will also assert that it is man's responsibility to pursue obedience. As the archetypal illustration of this idea, they believe Jesus in his words and work humanly fulfilled all that he as part of the Trinity had determined from the Father should be done. What he did humanly is distinguishable, but not separate, from what he did divinely." Here's a link to Predestination

And there are people who can, by trickery and highly developed observational skills, provide information that would seem to be impossible for them to know. The popular television show "The Mentalist" features such a person as the lead character. THE MENTALIST stars Golden Globe Award nominee Simon Baker as Patrick Jane, an independent consultant with the California Bureau of Investigation (CBI), who has a remarkable track record for solving serious crimes by using his razor sharp skills of observation. Within the Bureau, Jane is notorious for his blatant lack of protocol and his semi-celebrity past as a psychic medium, whose paranormal abilities he now admits he feigned. Jane's role in cracking a series of tough high-profile cases is greatly valued by his fellow agents. However, no-nonsense Senior Agent Teresa Lisbon openly resists having Jane in her unit and alternates between reluctantly acknowledging Jane's usefulness and blasting him for his theatrics, narcissism and dangerous lack of boundaries. Lisbon's team includes agents Kimball Cho, Wayne Rigsby and rookie member Grace Van Pelt, who all think Jane's a loose cannon but admire his charm and knack for clearing cases. http://www.cbs.com/primetime/the_mentalist/about/

We had a Momentus type experience in Fellow Laborers (mid 1970s). If it had a name, I don't remember it. People were brought in from outside the program and conducted the weekend "seminar" at the limb BRC. Lots of "scream in your face", "make you or break you" type activities. It was a bad scene. Real bad. If it had any lasting effects on people, they weren't good effects. We didn't pay extra for it, nor was it optional. It was part of our "program". I can't imagine anyone actually paying hard earned cash to have someone trash them in front of a room full of people and tell them how insignificant they supposedly are.

Oh, we had our share of screaming fits in FLO. They were usually (but not always) directed at the whole group, though.

You know that it would be untrue.

The wild dogs cry out in the night As they grow restless longing for some solitary company I know that I must do what's right Sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti I seek to cure whats deep inside, frightened of this thing that Ive become

Hi, shiftthis Thanks for your response. I hope you don't mind;I've taken the liberty of reformatting your response for easier readability. If you would prefer I not do that in the future, just say the word. *************************** got in the way in 1980 had some good leaders had some mean leaders, when the twig i was in split off from twi in 1987 i stayed with it ( the independent fellowship) when the independent fellowship ceased to exhist after several years i found a twi fellowship to attend, then i moved a few years later and attended a twi fellowship with a major "A" of a coordinator , i spoke up about him and he was fired and we got a nice new coordinator, a year or so later martindale wanted a superclean household and for some unknown reason i was booted out, a few years later i met up with someone in twi i had known and was told about lcm being fired and decided to start going to twi again, boy was i surprised to find this was not my grandpas ministry (I am my own grandpa,i got proof i was born in mississippi !!!) that was 2001 and as far as i know to this day peole who would hurt or be major "A" 's are not tolerated, yeah i got hurt a few times and so did others at the mouths of those that never should have ben put up with ,but it took lowely believers like me not being afraid to speak up i'v ben on both sides the independents and twi and have experenced hurt from both, if the way ceased to exhist i'd find others who would rightly divide the word and go to there fellowship, GOD looks on the heart and not at what church you go to , now i must go and see if i can find some old friends here , i already got united with a few a while back i got friends in all kinds of groups , GOD bless you, btw GOD also rides in a FORD !!!!

I don't see anybody trying to prove they are "holier-than-you-know". What I see are some people who are offended by this statement: "You see we did not select VPW to "put it all together" and distribute it around the world. God selected Dr to get the job done and it got done. Anyone hurt in the process would have probably gotten hurt some other way, and either way God is there to help them get healed if they want it."

I'm not sure. A well replenishes itself. A cistern doesn't.

Must have been long after I left.

Yes, I can see if one were still obsessed with defending the tenets of PFAL, some of these points might seem to have merit. Personally, I see PFAL for the error filled piece of crap that it really was, especially the bogus "law of believing" nonsense. Your "only rule" requires that one, of necessity, subscribe to contaminated doctrine in order to access non-contaminated doctrine.

My, aren't we clever?