waysider

Why is it that, when one of us would point out something similar to this, we were chastised for allowing our minds to harbor unrenewed thoughts but, when VPW did it, it was considered some "great" spiritual insight?

Here's one I think is appropriate. UP THE LINE by Little Walter Jacobs You used to love me, you said I was your desire You're actin' strange lately tryin' to, drive my love away I'm cuttin' out baby, Yes I'm goin' back up the line If I stay another day, you're goin' to, drive me out of my mind Took me from my home, I was nothin' but a child Made me all kinds of promises , I know it was a line of jive I'm cuttin' out baby, Yes I'm goin' back up the line If I stay another day, you're goin' to, drive me out of my mind Train is at the station, and I'm all packed to go It ain't no use to worry, 'cause I won't be back no more I'm cuttin' out baby, Yes I'm goin' back up the line If I stay another day, you're goin' to, drive me out of my mind (Sorry---Couldn't find an audio link.)

When you slip a drug into someones drink and then have sex with them while they are incapacitated, that is rape. It may not be rape in the same sense that many people use to define rape, (ie: forced physical violence that culminates in a sex act.) but it is, by legal definition, rape. Unwanted sex initiated trough coercion or psychological manipulation can also be sometimes defined as rape. Acting as a go-between to supply someone with sex partners is "pandering". It's also illegal. Exposing minors to pornography or sexually explicit materials is a crime. There are examples of that here and they name VPW. Supplying minors with alcohol is a crime in Ohio. There are examples of that here and they name VPW. Likewise, transporting a person across state lines for the purpose of "debauchery" is a federal crime. It is a violation of The Mann Act and does not require that a rape take place. There are examples of transporting for debauchery here on GSC and they name VPW. Here is an interesting link. http://www.yoursexhealth.org/html/details.php?det=1,0,0

You gotta be kidding! Why not change "High" Country Caravan, too, because it has a drug connotation?

I guess I must be behind the times. I don't see the sexual connotation.

Yeah, That's what I heard P.P. Wierwille say. (Or was it Uncle Harry?)

I'm still on your side.

My opinion--------- (When referencing a specific individual.) Before you can address that subject, you first have to wrestle with the possibility that the person was never really a genuine"minister" to begin with. Did they purposely abuse the office with which they were entrusted or simply stumble and fall due to human failings? edit: I think you also have to differentiate between adultery and Simony. For example, it's been reported that sexual favors were used in The Way as a form of payment in exchange for ordinations.

Click HERE

The secret code is in session #7. Never question. (Unless you want to suffer the consequences.) Having done all--------------STAND!

"To document his point. Numbers remember? Not to mention 3 is a long way from 100s" Another moot point. I never said there were hundreds. (Though I personally believe hundreds to be an underestimate.) What I did was to merely provide a few examples. What you did was discount and ignore them and then try to steer the topic off course by redirecting the focus. BTW---You seem to be avoiding my "question".

Life & Life Only

I'm so sorry, Dot. It takes a lot of courage to open your heart like that. These people who engage in these betrayals are sick. (IMO) I think it's a chronic kind of mental illness they have all their lives that thrives on conquest. As such, they become very skilled at disguising it and using it to suit their purpose. Your testimony serves as an alarm, a warning to others who might also be vulnerable. Thank you for bringing this danger out in the open for others to see.

I'm not sure that would constitute a conflict of interest---------- but it surely creates the appearance of one. And then to vocally protest books like Kristen's, that expose The Way, implying their motives are purely financial, seems a bit hypocritical to me. One would think that, with all the training The Way provided us in the art of obviation, a disclaimer would have appeared early on.

Happy Birthday! You're more priceless than this Degas.

"As a victim of a horrible crime my own self while in the way the reason I was marked was because he went to jail and I pressed charges and it was a mess and he was a leader. No so sorry you rabid internet drooling for a tidbit to talk about I aint saying dates names or anything but I aint a victim and I do not blame the way that I didnt know evil people prey on innocent women they didnt know I didnt know what I do now, anymore than they knew he was the type he was. they just didnt want people to know to focus on the drama of it all and I was very very hurt I was marked but in hind sight it was for the best because the "believers" would have taken sides etc... and I was so very hurt at the time. I did go back almost ten years later and found out with eyes to see and ears to hear the real issues I had with twi ." ******************************************************** Now you're saying someone in The Way abused you too? Suppose I tell you I think you just made that all up? After all, you're not providing any names or dates.

"not blaming a victim but can this happen to any girl at any time by any one?" Suppose that "anyone" was your daughter.

Perhaps you missed this: One of the worst things that happened to me, while associated with the Way, was I was raped by a Region Coordinator who visited our "Way home" after his teaching. We had a glass of wine and the three of us "Way home girls" went to sleep in our respective rooms. As I laid in my bed asleep, he climbed on top of me, and with my face down, I woke to him being already in progress. I tried to protest, but he put his hand over my mouth and told me, "You are blessing a man of God by taking care of my needs." I surrendered and experience what I later found to be an out-of-body experience. It was as if I was watching some woman that looked like me being pummeled by a man she hadn't accepted into her bed. ********************************************* Glass of wine, out-of-body experience------------ Sounds an awful lot like like GHB. (Which, at that time, was an OTC drug if I'm not mistaken.)

In FLO, we had a food co-op called "Manna". We made our Mayo from scratch ----------for 50 people! I can't believe I still eat the stuff after that.

Welcome to GSC, hissondavid First one is on the house.

Has anyone ever considered that this section of Acts may have been added by men for the same reason it was used in TWI? CONTROL!!

First click on this link http://www.abouttheway.org/ Then go here and click on "sexual conduct". What does sexual conduct tell us about the degree of integrity and spiritual authority of TWI leadership, past and present? Then go here and click on "marsha". Rumors have circulated for years that V. P. Wierwille was a sexual predator. Marsha tells her story. Then go here and click on "Donna". Donna adds her memories of how Wierwille abused her, too. Then go here and click on "Kristen's Story". Kristen's Story offers her recollections of VP Wierwille's advances toward her. Then go here and click on "Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery". "Schoenheit's Paper on Adultery" - Way leaders once ordered followers to have nothing to do with this Bible research paper. Many Way leaders, including author John Schoenheit (who was on staff with TWI's Research Department at the time), were fired because they had read it. Why was it so disturbing? Get the picture?

Pond If you think this is about "some old guy touching your boobies", you have really, and I do mean REALLY, missed the point. How would you feel if someone, whom your daughter trusted, slipped some GHB into her drink and then had sex with her while she was incapacitated? Do you place that in the same category? For that matter, simply providing a minor with alcohol is a crime in Ohio. The legal drinking age in Ohio is 21. HQ is in Ohio. Wierwille lived in Ohio almost his entire life. Transporting someone across state lines for these sorts of activities is a federal crime. It's covered by The Mann Act. Bullying subordinates into sexual activity is sexual harassment. It's against the law. Using an office of authority for these types of purposes in Simony. It's an egregious breach of professional trust. Not only have many, many people come forth here on GSC to bear testimony, some of them are well known and their names have appeared here. And these are just the sexually oriented debacles that took place. There is much more. Things like threatening people with physical violence while brandishing firearms, plagiarism, misappropriation of funds that were intended for ministry work-----and the list goes on. No, this is hardly about "some old guy touching your boobies 30 years ago".

BUMP