waysider

"You can't go beyond what you're taught." Not only is it not Biblical, it contradicts logic, common sense and the history of the advancement of Mankind.

That's like a dog chasing its tail, Mr. B. The simple fact is, many people got involved because they saw it as a way to help their fellow man. I think VPW, in contrast, got into it for purely selfish reasons.

When I was in TWI, you weren't supposed to date or marry anyone who was not in TWI. Now take that a step further. If you were Way Corps, you weren't supposed to date or marry outside the WC. If you were Fellow Laborer, --------You get the picture, I'm sure. You may laugh at us who took these things seriously if it makes you feel better. I assure you, though, many of us placed a great deal of misguided importance on this.

I don't understand that statement.

"vpw was teaching the trees when he was a kid." That's what he claimed. Of course, he actually "borrowed" that story from Billy Graham. "people stay in twi until it doesn't give them what they want. people want what vp promised." I personally believe it is much more complex than that. That explanation only accounts for people who were "me" oriented. I believe there were many who weren't. ("Me" oriented, that is) "so vpw raped women? the kids don't care . . ." Do you think they would, perhaps, care a bit more if it had been their sister, mother, daughter or wife that had been raped? In fact, it may well have happened to a family member.

:o

Why would you accept it to have any Biblical significance if it can't be backed by "chapter and verse" or at least something of Biblical relevance to support it? By the way, Wierwille did, indeed, say "You can't go beyond what you are taught.", in addition to the stated quote involving "believing". One such quote is on an SNS tape and has been documented here many times.

************************************************* Advanced Class, 1971--page 31 Gifts Of Healings What it is: "It is our taking the place of Jesus Christ here upon Earth." "---our taking the place of Jesus Christ------" ***************************************************** According to Wierwille, we had to take his place-----because, according to the AC class, he is absent! (How much plainer can it be?)

I think I somewhat understand you. However, I don't think that accurately describes the situation. Naturally, we wanted to get to a place where our communication with God was intimate and readily accessible. That, I think, was what many hoped would happen in the Advanced Class. I don't see that as an effort to get God to love us anymore as individuals. Likewise, the big push toward doing things for eternal rewards came a bit later, maybe the late 70s or early 80s. I think some of us thought of our efforts as being more on the order of a spiritual Peace Corps. I'm not saying we were correct, just that, that might better describe the mindset we had. Peace Corps

In the 60s, it wasn't all about "me, me, me" and making lots of money. I'm not sure if it was because of our youth or because we were products of our time, but many of us were more concerned with making this old world a better place. It was idealistic, of course, but that's just how it was. That's a hard concept to convey to the younger generation who have been conditioned to put their own well being above that of their fellow man.

Oldies said: "One may emulate, follow and obey someone else and not consider them a replacement for Christ. For instance, children are to emulate follow and obey their parents.. doesn't make the parents a replacement for Christ." ********************** PFAL syllabus page 11 "Christ is the living Word, the written Word the preached Word." page 12 "God and the Word are one." "It takes the Master's place in us through the Renewed Mind". page 16 "Christ is the Word in the flesh, made known by the written Word, made known by the preached Word." Session #5 "It's God in Christ in you." ************************************************ Yes, folks, VPW really did, indeed, teach that Christ is absent and we are his replacement, not just some people to "emulate, follow and obey". And, he said that if we were ever in doubt, (session #12) we should "ask the Teacher", the man who set himself up to be the ultimate replacement for the absent Christ.

"Lots of stuff I teach is not original." It's right there in front of us. The guy was telling us it was stolen. Without saying WHO the author of the original was, it's only HALF a statement. I can just see a guy telling the cops, "Lots of those T.V.s and stereos aren't mine." Huh?? Whose are they and where did you get them?

Once on line....today's worker's were upset to find that.............. --------------everyone was already singing "Roll Away". And so, frustrated by the inevitable fate that awaited-------

You tell me. Do you claim to have knowledge of God that hasn't been known since the first century?

Kathy Simpson

PFAL class: "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ." "It's Christ in VP Wierwille." So, then, what defines "The Word". Simple. Anything that comes out of the mouth of Wierwille because he is, after all, privy to knowledge that hasn't been known since Ephesus was a nothing but a bunch of spec. homes on the lake. By his logic, when he spoke, it was supposedly like Christ speaking. You would have to disregard PFAL to dispute that successfully.

"Retarded" is not a bad word, in and of itself. How it is applied is another story. The problems arise when the speakers intentions are less than honorable or when the hearer perceives them as such. Unfortunately, we can't always know what the speaker's intentions are or, if we are the speaker, how our words will be perceived. It's best to err on the side of caution, in my opinion. Besides, we all have our own disabilities. Some are just more visible than others.

Back then, I wouldn't have dared to lie to leadership. They had us believing they could get revelation when they needed it. (Reach up in Daddy's cookie jar.) And they used the Ananias & Saphira scripture to hold us at bay. There was that, and the danger of leaving the hedge of protection. If you just "played along to climb the ladder", after realizing it was a crock of road apples, that would make you the deceiver. I believe that's what VPW did.

Now there is a 558 page transcript of the 1979 Advanced Class up for bid at $199.00. No bids so far. Seller is in Elyria, Ohio. http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksi...-All-Categories ALSO

I don't go to Sunday School anymore.

There are other examples of well known musicians whose talents were wasted by TWI.

Sugar Blue

Happy Birthday