waysider

Sorry, Twinky I just meant an apparent desire to return to the "warm fuzzies" that some people have related to me. Like trying to believe in Father Christmas again, ya know? I'll stay out of here now.

Personal opinion disclaimer I think they know. They are con men at heart. Just like that guy who tries to sell you a car he knows was in Hurricane Katrina but conveniently neglects to mention it to you.

I have to be somewhat vague in my response because some of the specific decisions are just too embarrassing. I'll probably never share them here on GSC for that reason. But I can say this, some of the biggest ones ended in betrayal. Most of those betrayals were by people I should have been able to trust the most, people who claimed to represent God. I'm way past the angry phase. I just hope now that I can help to keep other people, especially my son, from being duped like I was. But, yeah. Lot's of it is about stuff I DIDN'T do more than things I did.

Maybe I'm a party crasher here because I was never in the WC. I was in FLO, though, so I have at least a vague concept of the program. HERE is the impression I have gotten from people who have described the site to me.

Yes, my feelings are linked to regret about poor decisions. The thing is, though, those poor decisions stem from me being too trusting. I thought I was a pretty savvy guy when I got into the Word. I was already an adult. But when I got in The Word, for some reason I reverted to an unexplainable state of naivete. Suddenly I found myself completely trusting people who I would have run screaming from in my pre-TWI days. My street smarts were telling me to wake up but the leadership tricked me into thinking I was the one who was wrong for all the "natural man" thoughts. I am much wiser now but almost 40 years has gone down the drain. Misplaced trust played a very big role. Is that kind of how you feel, too?

I'm not sure shame is the correct terminology. I, too, though, have experienced similar feelings. In early 1975, I moved out of my hometown as a direct result of a Way related decision. Due to a series of other poor decisions, directly related to my involvement with The Way, I never returned. I can't say my life is miserable. it's actually pretty good. Still, there is a certain sadness that comes with realizing I can never get back all those missed high school graduations, marriages, funerals, new births, watching the nieces and nephews grow up, helping my parents in their old age, etc. I guess melancholy would better describe it than shame.

Wierwille himself admitted to a crime when he spoke of the incident involving improper sexual conduct with a minor, though I suppose, in his opinion, it wasn't criminal. No matter, ignorance of the law is no excuse. There were several witnesses to his admission, by the way.

Hey, WD Do you have any business interests tied to all this controversy?

Cool stuff, spec! Sounds like a well balanced approach.

You don't ever have to be ashamed, Dot. Disappointed, perhaps, but never ashamed.

It's all rather transparent looking at it from so far away, isn't it?

Yes, he said it was the only thing he was absolutely sure was "taboo".

Yeah, you're right, Steve! It was anal sex. I guess I should have been paying closer attention.

"Well, you'll just have to take my word on this one."--------------------------VPW

Responding to the nature of the class contents: One thing that Wierwille specifically stated to be "off the Word", in or out of marriage, was analinctus. He then made sure to let us know that the slang term for it is "up the dirt road". Yep, I can see how that might be necessary in a Bible class----NOT!

From this thread: http://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/index.php?showtopic=283 post Sep 18 2003, 11:25 PM Post #11 WD said: They did not give out syllabus except for a scripture sheet and a handout on The Virtuous Woman. The Corps classes did have a syllabus about 40 pages and as Im looking the ever present Final exam. also a instructers guide.

Would an admission by Wierwille himself be enough? You see, Wierwille made such an admission when he graphically described, to a roomful of people, how he fondled an adolescent, to "teach her about sexuality". In Ohio, that is, what was referred to at that time, as Statutory Rape. Today, there may be other crimes that are attached to it as well, such as sexual molestation, unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, contributing to the delinquency of a minor, etc. ************************************************** Ohio Statutory Rape Laws Having sexual relations with a person deemed a minor is illegal in most states. This crime is called statutory rape. While the crime is not violent and does not usually take place under threats of physical force, it is considered a violation of the victim. The reasoning behind the law is that a person who is considered to be a minor is legally incapable of making an informed decision to consent to sex. Ohio statutory rape laws define a minor as anyone who is between the ages of 13 and 16 years old. So, my work researching Ohio statutory rape laws revealed that if you are 18 years old or older, and you engage in sexual activity with someone between the ages of 16 and 16 who is not your legal spouse, you are committing the crime of unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. This is a felony in the fourth degree. However, if you have sexual relations with a person who is age 13, 14, or 15 and you are less than four years older than that person, you can only be charged with a misdemeanor, according to Ohio statutory rape laws. A more serious charge will be leveled against you if it is determined that you engaged in sexual activity with a person between the ages of 13 and 16, and you are 10 years older than the victim. Some states are very specific in regard to the gender of victim and offender. However, I did not find that Ohio statutory rape laws specify the gender or either victim or offender. Therefore, you can be charged with or be a victim of this crime regardless of whether you are male or female. Ohio statutory rape laws carry significant punishments. The crime is considered a felony and can result in severe financial penalties or time spent in prison. Source: http://blog.laborlawtalk.com/2006/10/21/oh...tory-rape-laws/ ********************************************************** Ohio statute 2907.04 Unlawful sexual conduct with a minor (A) No person who is eighteen years of age or older shall engage in sexual conduct with another, who is not the spouse of the offender, when the offender knows the other person is thirteen years of age or older but less than sixteen years of age, or the offender is reckless in that regard. Source: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...19103318AA06GAt

Oh, Yeah? Prove it!!

You are mistaken. About Us Welcome to the GreaseSpot Cafe! GreaseSpot Cafe is a gathering place, bringing together people and information. We welcome all who have an interest in The Way International, including former followers, current followers, and those who may have friends or family members who are involved. Our mission is to provide information that tells the other side of the story about The Way International and its trustees. Our hope is that GreaseSpot Cafe serves as a place where those who have been impacted by The Way can make connections with people and information which will support their particular process of recovery. We want people to be able to make informed decisions regarding their past, present, and future affiliations with The Way International (TWI). Whether you are standing with TWI, thinking about leaving, trying to help someone else get out, or looking for support from others who have left, we believe the information here is highly relevant and well worth considering. Look at our WayDale Documents section and see for yourself what information has come to light as a result of lawsuits against TWI, resignations of various limb and branch coordinators, letters from Martindale to the Way Corps regarding controversial issues and policies, notes from actual Way Corps meetings, and much more. Consider the longstanding patterns of conspiracy at the trustee level, questionable doctrines and practices, ongoing cover-ups, and sexual abuse of numerous women at the hands of certain TWI leaders. It's no wonder that TWI is desperately trying to shield their followers from this information by warning them off the Internet. We think that if you give this information an honest reading, you'll see that you haven't been told the whole story. Browse through our forums and read what people are saying about their experiences in TWI. Find old friends or make new ones. Elicit support or offer an insight. Share information or simply read and consider. The opinions expressed here are often passionate and while disagreements are not uncommon, the online Ex-Way community is a great arena for conversing and connecting with others. You may get caught in a food fight now and then, but unlike TWI, GreaseSpot Cafe is a place where questions are encouraged and people make up their own minds.

I personally knew two people who died as a direct result of TWI's erroneous teachings. These are not people I knew "of". These are people I knew.

Thanks, David.

Try this on for a non-sexual twist. Wierwille insisted LEAD participants had to hitch hike from Ohio to New Mexico and back. Guess what? That's illegal in most parts Ohio as well as many areas they would have had to pass through. Wierwille lived in Ohio most his life. If he didn't know that, he should have. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. People WERE raped, beaten, even killed as a result of this decision. He was complicit.

Your point is not only moot, it's a deliberate distraction. Suddenly, you've decided this entire discussion needs to focus on one specific item, rape. This thread is not specifically about rape. Start a separate thread to that effect if you so choose. If you say Wierwille was never convicted of a crime, you are correct. (As far as I know.) If you say no one ever witnessed him engaging in illegal activities, you are grossly in error. Entire rooms full of people witnessed him partaking of illegal activities.

I have no objection to open discussion. After all, it was open discussion that provided an opportunity for at least two posters to tell us that they took CF&S when they were under age. Wierwille taught these classes both live and taped. One such poster was only 11 years old. CF&S was inappropriate for underage students. It is illegal to expose underage children to sexually explicit materials unless it is under the auspices of a certified training regimen. Even then, there is strict protocol that must be followed. I personally objected to this specific item and was told it was O.K because we were a closed corporation. Wierwille's response to this objection, though his response to the question was delivered second-hand, was "What better place to learn this stuff than in 'the family'"?

What I said, or at least implied, is that there is an abundance of such documentation scattered across the pages of GSC, as well as external sources, such as Kristen and Karl's books. My one snip simply illustrated that upper leadership (Regional Coordinator) was complicit. And, though VPW is, in fact, implicated in that snip, it by no means represents the entirety of testimony that can be found here. Have you read T-Bone's recalling of an incident that involved VPW calling a 16 year old girl to the front of a roomful of Way Corps and showing her a sexually graphic pen? That may not seem like such a big deal to you but is is illegal and was witnessed by an entire roomful of people. There are also testimonies here that recall an incident when Wierwille stated, in front of a roomful of people, that he had fondled a family member in order to teach her about sexuality. There is more than one person at GSC who was in that room. I'm no lawyer but I'm inclined to believe that constitutes sexual assault and corruption of a minor. If you read the link I provided carefully, you will also see a reference to VPW transporting across state lines for the purpose of debauchery. You have to cross state lines to get from Ohio to Kansas and vice versa. You will also find, on GSC, an incident where VPW (identified through context) offered a minor female alcohol. When she pointed out to VPW that she was underage, he assured her it was O.K. because she was with him and proceeded to supply her with a drink. That's against the law in Ohio. You may say that she was foolish to accept the drink and you will be correct, but it doesn't negate the legality.