waysider

Maybe this should be on the "my story" thread. I'm not sure. I only know that it seems to tie into this one. ( I'll try to give the abbreviated version.) When I got "witnessed to", not only was I an adult, I was already estranged from my family. Big time! When I made the split with my family, it was a very, very intense experience. -----Fast forward---I get made a twig leader and my kid brother shows up for twig meetings. He wants to take PFAL so, for his 16th birthday, my parents pay his way into the class. -----fast forward again----my parents take the class---my Mom becomes a twig leader. My parents meet lots of great people with whom they maintain friendships that span decades. Lots and lots of great memories are made. -----at the same time--- My brother gets on the TWI conveyor belt line. Lots of classes. Three leadership training "programs". Lots of memories are made. Not all of them are great. Some of them are, well, you know. Chalk it all up to fate. I'm not really sure anymore. All I know is that it was my zeal for The Way that played a large part in how these three lives evolved. And, while I recognize my role as a factor in the equation, I can't allow myself to feel guilty. I never did anything out of malice or greed. I simply thought I had struck gold and wanted my family to share in the wealth. It's convoluted. Life is convoluted. You can't beat yourself up for doing what you thought would help people. Some were helped, some were hurt. Life is like that sometimes. All I can do is say I'm sorry for the adverse effects my involvement may have indirectly caused. I truly mean it.

At least that choice is yours, not someone elses.

Well, he WAS "sour", dontcha know!

I wonder, if years from now, some of our younger posters will look back at this thread and see it as a good time or a bad time. :lol:

Like Twinky stated, money and time were always a major consideration. It seems like it's only been in the last decade or so that picture taking has become so affordable and easy. That might not mean a hill of beans to many people but we really had to use our time and resources judiciously back then.

Well, if this thing hasn't become convoluted enough, I'll toss in another twist. When I was in Fellow Laborers, there came a point where I thought that, perhaps, the most reasonable thing for me to do was to completely call it quits. But herein lies the problem. Back home, I had family that were heavily involved in The Way. I had brought them into the fold. How would I now tell them I might have made a terrible mistake? I wasn't really sure if my doubts had any merit. Likewise, there were local believers who looked up to those of us who chose to become involved in the various "commitment-demanding" programs. If I was wrong, what effect would my quitting have on their stands? Was it right for me to be so selfish when I wasn't even sure if my suspicions were real? Does any of this make sense? Some things that are blatant and intentional beg to have someone claim ownership. Others simply have to be accepted as kismet. Beyond that, I really have no answers except that, if there is anything reasonable in the here and now you can do to rectify what you feel was a personal indiscretion in the past, maybe it's time to act on it. Otherwise, it's what my Grandpa used to call "crying over spilt milk". Please believe me, I don't use that expression lightly or as an attempt to minimize anyone's personal experience. But sometimes "there ain't nothing you can do but put your shoulder to the wheel and keep pushin' on".

If I say that I personally feel guilty for my involvement, that's one thing. If I say that anyone who ever participated shares that guilt, that's quite another. This is where things start to get gray and blurry. Did I ever have good times?---Yes. Do I ever feel guilty for dragging my family into the ministry?---Again, the answer is yes. I can only answer those questions for myself. Good, bad or indifferent, the overall price of it was far too high.

Who ya gonna call?

You can't lose what you ain't never had.

OK---That's my real name. But for gosh sakes, keep it under your hat.

Even The Flat Earth Society has "hangers-on".

To clarify some points: 1.I used the Way acronym, "SIT", to refer to "speaking in tongues as taught by The Way." 2.I have lived with someone for 26 years who admittedly faked, not only SIT, but TIP and Prophesy for over 2 years before leaving The Way. So, no, I don't base my assessment on the testimony that has been presented here by some others on GSC. 3. I, too, spoke in tongues before PFAL and it was an amazing and uplifting experience for me as well. 4. I never said that "it's always fake". ******************************************************* The basis of my "premise" is that SIT, or "speaking in tongues as taught in The Way", is bogus. As a quick reference, I offer sessions 11 & 12 of PFAL. On page 62 of the PFAL syllabus, Wierwille offers a list of "12 things that speaking in tongues is". That list is nothing more than a list of Wierwille's private interpretation (or the private interpretation of whomever may have inspired him.) with scriptures thrown in to give it some Biblical credibility. What Wierwille taught in PFAL is what is commonly called glossolalia. Glossolalia has been practiced since long before the "first century". It's also been practiced by non Christians.There have been many studies conducted on glossolali and, surprisingly, the effects of glossolali are not as damning as might be presumed. The application and exploitation of said practice, however, is a whole different matter. The SIT we were taught in PFAL was really nothing substantially different than the glossolali that has been practiced by Christians and non-Christians alike for thousands of years and predates Christ himself by thousands of years.To be so brazen as to say "it's proof in the senses realm that you're going to Heaven and all hell can't stop you" is a bogus, blatant and deplorable misrepresentation and application of scripture. GLOSSOLALIA (rather lengthy but worth the read)

Trophy Mentality

The "Lies and Deception" thread raised this question for me. How did you feel when you found out that SIT is bogus?

I'm not sure, but I think that sign may still be hanging on the wall.

I saw a sign in a tavern that said "Free Beer Tomorrow." :)

Yes, Virginia, There is a Santa Claus Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps. "DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old. "Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. "Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.' "Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus? "VIRGINIA O'HANLON. "115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET." VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge. Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished. Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world. You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood. http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

He said "dick-tater". Heh heh heh heh heh heh!

I remember that, too. (and I was never in any upper elite circle.)

Muddy (aka McKinnley Morganfield) is best known for his unmistakable baritone voice, slide guitar and authorship of countless classics covered by everyone from The Rolling Stones to Led Zepplin. But, many people don't realize he started as a harp player. That may be why harmonica played a major role in almost every band he ever led. The list of harp players who worked with him reads like a "who's who" of musicians. It included the likes of Little Walter Jacobs, Big Walter Horton, Junior Wells, James Cotton, Paul Butterfield, Paul Oscher, Jerry Portnoy, George Smith, George Buford, Sonny Boy II, and so forth. And, you could compile a similar list of guitar players, piano players, drummers and bass players. TWI, on the other hand, is best known for---OK, I can't think of anything right now. Give me a moment.

RIP---Kenny Rankin

As long as people continue to extol the virtues of *PLAF* (The Wonder Class), the mythical legacy of Herr Wierwille will live on, even if only in a dormant form like an insidious virus. *PLAF*= Puke, Lugey And Flatulence

Hey, you left out the Rush, Beck, etc. followers!!

That is standard fare for The Way. They believe that they are "the one true household of God". In addition, they believe that God provides a special "hedge of protection" to those who are loyal to the organization. They also believe, inversely, that life outside the household is an invitation to the devil to do with them as he pleases. In other words, walk away at your own risk as well as the risk of your family members. So, having friends outside the walls of Zion is playing with fire by their standards. (God forbid you should date or even marry someone outside the fold!!) Or put in a more simplistic manner---It's a cult, for cryin' out loud!!