waysider

Nah, let's talk about the non-existence of VP (you know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille's ministry

Were there EVER any pertinent details?

As long as I can do my "Lo Shanta"s, who gives a crap about anybody else? I'm going to Heaven and all Hell can't stop me. V.P. said so and he wouldn't lie----would he? :unsure:

There's a line in the Dealing With The Adversary class where Walter quotes the scripture, "You have not because you ask amiss." At that juncture, he smiles and offers, as an aside, "Maybe he should have asked a Mrs." Was it just a silly, corny joke? I thought so at the time. Looking back, it's just kind of creepy, in a not so funny kind of way.

Even if you don't believe in the Bible and the hereafter, it's still a real issue because there are people who are feeling the painful effects in the here and now.

Work that was never even his to begin with. At least P.T. Barnum made no excuses for his real motives. I am a showman by profession...and all the gilding shall make nothing else of me.....P.T. Barnum

Personally, I rather suspect he was merely laying down the groundwork of a preemptive defense in case he should ever be found out, by claiming it was accepted as the "norm" in some cultures.

Spousal abuse was rampant in The Way, even back in the "the good old days". Not only were unrealistic standards of submission placed on women, unrealistic standards of domination were placed on men. The Way is by no means the only group or culture that promotes this sort of behavior. But, that doesn't make it right.

Wierwwille had no "ministry". He was a con-man, building what he hoped would become a succesful multi-level-marketing organization. In the process, many, many lives were damaged, some irreversibly. The Way is not and never was a "safe haven".

V.P., himself, confessed to small groups in the W.C. that he sexually fondled his adolescent daughter to "teach her about sexuality". (One such group was comprised of all women.) According to VP (You know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille, this was supposedly a custom that was practiced by some aboriginal tribe in some remote area of the World. (So much for "The Bible is our only rule of faith and practice.") There are people who currently post here who were present at those meetings, which makes it first-hand testimony. As I've said before, we have no way of knowing if he was being truthful in making these confessions. What we do know for certain, though, is that he did, indeed, make these confessions.

Of course, 2 albums later they sing.... a seasoned witch can call you from the depths of your disgrace. First, mine is no disgrace, then somehow I got disgrace. Must have come in on the Fragile album. Just like the Stones, in 1964 time was on their side, but by 1974 time waits for no one. Fickle, I tell ya.... Well, like you said on another thread----It's not scripture.

Read the lyrics, John. HERE The song tells a message. Put on your "thinking cap" and see if you can understand what the author was saying. It was meant to be auto-biographical. The author felt a deep sense of remorse for his previous misdeeds. VPW, on the other hand, raped young women who had put their trust in him as their spiritual adviser. He broke his marriage vows to his wife in the process. He was verbally and psychologically abusive to his wife, in contrast to the Biblical lessons he preached from the pulpit. He was in an almost constant state of inebriation, despite the Bible's admonition to "let all things be in moderation". He lambasted anyone who disagreed with him. He surrounded himself with armed thugs who functioned as bodyguards despite his blathering on and on about how we are more than conquerors in all situations. He drove people to suicide and showed no remorse. His L.E.A.D. program policies left some people maimed for life (or worse) but he failed to amend the requirements. Shall I go on? Maybe that's why he had no problem with changing that one little word to absolve himself of guilt. This is the man you are defending. Don't you find that the least bit disheartening? Perhaps you, too, lack the ability to feel compassion. It would seem so, at least, from the callous demeanor conveyed in your posts.

Just one word, that's all it took for Wierwille to reveal his lack of remorse and repentance for the dastardly deeds he'd committed.

This is my favorite line: Lost in losing circumstances, that's just where you are.

I remember singing the old hymn, Amazing Grace, when I was in The Way. Here is the first stanza. I have done a strike-through to reflect one of the changes Wierwille made to the lyrics. It's only one word. Yet, I think it accurately reflects the essence of how Wierwille perverted the intended message. Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch someone like me. I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now I see.

Circular Reasoning Bill: "God must exist." Jill: "How do you know." Bill: "Because the Bible says so." Jill: "Why should I believe the Bible?" Bill: "Because the Bible was written by God."

Indeed. It spirals downward until, finally, a loud Whoooooshing sound is heard

Something evil that some STILL call good: VP Wierwille.

BTW, johniam, I find it amusing you should quote that particular line from Yours Is No Disgrace out of context. Here are the the words in their entirety: Yesterday a morning came, a smile upon your face. Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human race, On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place, If the summer changed to winter, yours is no disgrace. Battleships confide in me and tell me where you are, Shining, flying, purple wolfhound, show me where you are, Lost in summer, born in winter, travel very far, Lost in losing circumstances, that's just where you are. Yesterday a morning came, a smile upon your face. Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human race, On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place, If the summer changed to winter, yours is no, Yours is no disgrace. Yours is no disgrace. Yours is no disgrace. Death defying, mutilated armies scatter the earth, Crawling out of dirty holes, their morals, their morals disappear. Yesterday a morning came, a smile upon your face. Caesar's palace, morning glory, silly human race, On a sailing ship to nowhere, leaving any place, If the summer changed to winter, yours is no, Yours is no disgrace. Yours is no disgrace. Yours is no disgrace.

A safe harbor for whom? The women who were raped? The people who committed suicide? The people who turned to substance abuse? The families that were torn apart? The kids who suffered abuse at the hands of misguided caregivers? The people who died trying to prove some bogus "magic law" was real? VP (You know he wasn't really a Dr., don't you?) Wierwille was no man of God. He was a callous con-man, out to satisfy his own perverted appetite. He didn't give a rat's rear end who got hurt in the process..... not you, not me, not even his own wife and children. "He was a mean man."-----Mrs. W.

"We were NOT brainwashed; we believed something that made logical sense to us." BRAINWASHING

Lots of people thought John Wayne Gacy was a "good man". So, what drives people to defend VPW, even exalt him? I can understand this sort of thing from people who are unaware of what happened. But, what about people who are aware of the sort of monster that was actually hiding behind the mask? What drives them to deny the truth?

Is there anything in THIS thread that sheds some light on it?

It looks like there is some sort of temporary problem with the server. I tried to get in the back door at exway vision but that acess is not functioning either.