waysider

Well, actually, he never said your intentions had to be "good". He only said they ought to lead to whatever it was that would please you. -----Screw the other guy, as long as I get whatever I want. "Do what you like, as long as you like what you do"----VP Wierwille

Somewhere, someone's calling. 6 o'clock on a Thursday evening I saw the smoke rise orange in the sky I watched the fire climb over the hilltops. Canyon's burning Canyon's burning down. Hear the trees crying All the years dying Fire has turned the hills into ashes And as the sun ran down from the sky The canyon burned. Canyon's burning Canyon's burning down. Ashes, long lying Memories, slow dying Fire has gone and the rain has fallen The winter has passed and the springtime is near But under the wind someone is calling. Canyon's burning Canyon's burning down. The Great Canyon Fire In General

An amazing performance of Gershwin's

Now, is a jam!!

"seeing the light" Do migraine auras count? :unsure:

Would you like a jelly baby for the road?

It's got my vote, too.

Of course he did, John. If he didn't, you and I were following the ministry of a man who "didn't know what he was doing". Is that how you like to think of yourself? As someone who followed the guidance of someone who didn't know what he was doing? Do you really think that silly "answer a question with a question" nonsense will fly here?

Wierwille KNEW what he was doing. Was he forgiven?

That, my friend, is where you are seriously in error.

John, it's well known, among those who spent time working closely with Wierwille, that he was a very, very heavy drinker and was frequently in a state of inebriation. He was also a chain smoker. Many people who post, or have posted here, can easily substantiate that fact. In addition, if you were ever involved with preparing for a visit from Wierwille, you would probably be aware that liquor was to be provided for him during his stay, no matter how brief. Whether it was "this brand" or "that brand" is a moot point in the context of this discussion. Furthermore, the man died as a result of metastasizing cancer of the eye and liver. It is a well know medical fact that alcohol and tobacco abuse are often major contributory factors in the development of cancer. HERE is a link that presents more information regarding Wierwille's death from cancer.

Wierwille: The Bible is my only rule of faith and practice. Interviewer: What does that mean?. Wierwille: It means I let the Bible dictate the way I conduct my life. Interviewer: What about adultery? Doesn't the Bible say adultery is wrong? Wierwille: Well, that's really "spiritual" adultery. Interviewer: Oh, I see. So, then, the rest of the morals in The Ten Commandments are really "spiritual" rules, as well. Like for instance, murder. It's not really murder, it's "spiritual" murder. Stealing isn't really stealing, it's "spiritual" stealing. Wierwille: Well, it doesn't really matter because the Ten Commandments weren't written to the people of today. Interviewer: But, aren't they part of the Bible? Wierwille: Yes. Interviewer: So, then, what's the point of saying the Bible is your only rule of faith and practice if, in fact, it's not?

OK, John, suppose morals really ARE "man-made". Wierwille claimed that the Bible was his "only rule of faith and practice." But, he didn't practice a lifestyle that was in accordance with the Bible. Therefore, he practiced a lifestyle of man made morals. At the very least, that makes him a liar.

No one ever got any "deliverance" from TWI. Not in the Biblical sense or otherwise.

It's a silly little concept called "eye witnesses". Lots and lots of them. You may be familiar with the concept, no? Any eye witnesses regarding the F.B.I. claim?

Exactly. And to insure it remained safe, Wierwille took extreme security measures. For a guy who trumpeted the value of safety via believing, he sure lived a life of paranoia.

What does any of this have to do the original question? For whom was The Way a "safe haven/harbor"?

Then why do I what? Where is your proof the FBI infiltrated The Way? This is what you said in post #22 There were. They were watching us at least since pfal '77, which happened before Jonestown. They watched us at LEAD HQ. They did think we were going to start attacking places with guns. I guess we weren't that kind of cult. Beliefs are one thing; terrorism is quite another. So, how do you know that?

What was he so afraid of? "Oh, the Illuminati is out to get me"----Yeah, sure. More like some irate husband or father, bent on cutting his nuts off and stuffing them down his throat. Where was all that fearlessness he boasted of ?

He had armed body guards, trained attack dogs, a goon squad he could dispatch to locations outside HQ------and, yet, he told the L.E.A.D. participants they would have to use mojo magic believing to keep themselves safe..... The guy was a hypocritical woos.

In the CF&S class, he said that husbands and wives should each have a "lockbox" where they keep information about their sexual history that they don't share with each other. After reading Losing The Way, it's pretty clear why he taught that. I'm finding it hard to believe I actually sat there and listened to this garbage.

One of your favorites in jr. high???? Oh, my! I really DO feel old now.

and you know this------how?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53q2YuKGejc&feature=related