waysider

He suffers from a severe case of alopecia barbae. OR He doesn't suffer from a severe case of alopecia barbae.

Don't recognize it.

First cup is on the house.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44bamW7ZbMo&feature=related

Time to put this one to bed. It's Apple, Peaches, Pumpkin Pie----Jay and the Techniques FREE POST!!

Amen, Brudder Squirrel!

Gullible?... Maybe Idealistic?...Absolutely! We were the generation that was going to change the world, make it a better place, be a part of something bigger than ourselves. TWI seemed like it was offering a chance to do those things. And, don't forget, some of our decisions weren't all bad, in and of themselves, but, they were based on misleading, deceptive information. Take the WOW program, for example. "Grow ten years in one", "Gain a greater, in-depth spiritual perception.", blah, blah, blah, blah. For cryin' out loud. There was nothing spiritual about it. It was simply an unpaid sales/recruiting campaign for the PFAL class. Sure, some people experienced personal growth. That's what adversity does to us. It makes us wiser. That's not entirely a bad thing. And, sure, some people had fun in the process. Again, not entirely a bad thing. But, to go on thinking we were part of some noble effort that changed the world in some significant way is denial. It's ludicrous, plain and simple.

I'll find you anywhere you go, I'm gonna look high and low. You can't escape this love of mine anytime. Well, I'll sneak up behind you, Be careful where I find you. Ready or not here I come, Gee that used to be such fun

John, you seem to have a keen dislike for anything that might expose what really went on in The Way. Yet, you continue to come here, knowing that exposing TWI's dirty secrets is part of the site's objective. Do you have any thoughts on why that might be?

Ooooh! So close!

Ready or not, here I come. Gee, that used to be such fun.

We know from the O.T. that people climbed trees. So, according to Wierwille's definition, Jesus is not the only one to have gone into or come down from Heaven. I'm thinking his definition may have some obvious flaws.

Here's one we used to sing in grade school.

Get Together----The Youngbloods The original HERE

The question is really not,"Where is Heaven?" The question is, as I interpret it, "Where did people of ancient/Biblical cultures perceive it to be?". According to Wierwille, via his interpretation of the events of Pentecost, they considered everything above Earth to be Heaven. Is it? Is it not? Irrelevant, IMO. What's relevant is that what Wierwille taught appears to be contradictory with perceptions that were prevalent during the point in time when Acts was written.

Yes, and to you, as well.

I think we would really need to understand a bit more about Acts to answer this question. Things like..... Who wrote it?, when was it written, why was it written?, who was the intended audience?, etc.

We touched on this briefly in Thus Saith Paul. These types of questions need to be answered in a context that acknowledges the chronology of the writings and deals honestly with the concept of inerrancy.

You also said: Ralph didn't do that just to be a jerk; he did it to bless my friend whose feelings were hurt. .............................................................................. Let's put this in perspective, shall we? God didn't give Ralph any sort of "revelation" to do what he did, nor is there any sort of scriptural precedent on which to base this. He simply did something foolish and unbecoming for someone in his position. If you think it "blessed" someone, your sense of values may have become warped. We have all done things that make us wish we could go back in time and have a "do-over". Lord knows, I've had my share. But here's the thing. And it's important. When Ralph saw that what he was involved with was corrupt, he severed his ties with the organization. He has since acknowledged his regrets and offered apologies. Trying to rationalize this incident and give it some sort of "spiritual significance" is a perfect example of how convoluted our ability to think became, my own included. Drawing a parallel to Biblical events is ludicrous at best.

I still don't see how your "F-" story, or wanting to know if I've ever used "the f-word", has any relevance to the concept of "fake it 'til you make it". Maybe you could elaborate a bit more.

If they thought of Heaven as being any old place above Earth, why would they even bother to reference it as "Heaven"? See what I mean? ....."Dude,there was this really rad sound coming from all around us."

What did they stand to lose? They had a sales staff that went where they were told to go, did what they were told to do and worked for 0% commission. That's not trust, that's exploitation.

Relevance?

I agree. It was showboating. Nothing profound or "Godly" about it. However, unlike so many other former leaders, Ralph has come here and offered an apology...don't hold your breath waiting to see that from some of the others.