waysider

Nowhere in the Bible does it say that "we" can get people born-again. Not our job. The best you can hope for is that, by expounding on your personal beliefs, you will convince someone to agree with you. May I remind you, as well, that the primary purpose of Witnessing and Undershepherding, according to page 2 of the W&U syllabus, is to get people into the PFAL class. In other words, like it or not, we were, essentially, an unpaid sales force for Wierwille's flawed product line, the PFAL series.

Is that a euphemism for "sopping up the gravy"?

I, obviously, can't read minds. My guess, though, is that you were simply playing off the "nothingness" of the song. In which case, it's not a smart-aleck statement at all, just a clever retort.

In PFAL, Wierwille said, "The Word takes the place of the absent Christ." Aside from the obvious absence problem, there is a problem, also, with deciding what exactly constitutes "The Word". For most people in TWI, I would say that decision was based heavily on whatever Wierwille declared it to say..... And then you are back to the concept behind the "Well, Dr. said....." thread.

Hardly a valid comparison. "Dr. John" is the stage persona of Mac Rebannack. (It's simply a character he plays on stage.) Do you honestly not see the difference here?

"That stuff was handed down from the Mountain and breathed from the mouth of God......donchaknow." First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

No jokes or wacky analogies this time, Ham. Just a big congratulations on a job well done. I'm pretty sure it couldn't have been easy.

Morality is in a constant state of flux. Yesterday's lie becomes today's tool of survival.

Not to mention, the free membership to Jazzercise.

I love ya, brudder, but sometimes I really don't understand what you mean. (This is one of those times.)

Tornadoes are what I loath. Well, that and ice storms.

Well, now, funny you should mention "insane". See, I think that particular word has a connotation of indwelling sanity. Yes, that's it. Someone who is in-sane is really sane (in an inner sense) Have I made myself throughly/thoroughly clear?

While I see your point, somehow, I can't bring myself to accept that Wierwille was on a plane of equality with any of these examples.

For those who are still involved with TWI or an offshoot What items from the list of Actual Errors in PFAL do you still include in your teachings or hear being included in others' teachings?

Standing for a cult leader......not the same as standing for "The Pledge"....Know what I mean, Vern?

Sure, he's allowed to make up words. No law against it. That doesn't mean the words will have any sort of universally understood meaning, though, or that the words will have the same meaning as other words. No problem... plenty of other straightforward errors to choose from. I won't bother to list them, as there is both an editorial and a seperate thread set aside for this purpose. You are correct in observing that Kris has changed names and other details. Some of this is done for obvious legal reasons. Also, some changes were made as a vehicle of literary license so that the gist of the book would appeal to a broader audience than just Way followers. (An example of this is when she refers to baby dedications as baptisms. Even though this isn't specifically accurate, it is a way to state it that will be understood by a broad audience in a general sense.) Yes, there is a thread that deals with the book as well as an audio interview on the front page.

Remember the old story of the bumblebee?....Too heavy to fly, but it does it anyway? Turns out it was really a myth. Probably originated at a time when the laws of aerodynamics were not yet as fully understood as they are today. So, suppose you are an eighth grade science teacher who has been repeating this myth for years. Now you stumble upon the truth of the matter. Do you continue to teach your classes that the bumble bee is too heavy to fly, now that you know it isn't?

"We sure do love you." Uh-huh----until your attendance becomes less than consistent and your ABS payments dry up. Then you might just as well be a week old tuna sandwich.

John You have obviously never bothered to read the "Actual Errors in PFAL". If you had, you would know that I'm not referring to things that are arbitrary. I'm talking about things that are clear-cut. Throughly and thoroughly do not have different definitions, as Wierwille insisted. One is simply an obsolete form of the other. That's not an opinion, it's a fact. There are, likewise, factual errors in the way Wierwille dealt with apistia and apathia....kingdom of heaven and kingdom of God...lambano and dechomai.....Bar Mitza in the O.T....and more. These are not subjective opinions, they are factual observations. Do you still teach these things the way they were presented in PFAL?....If so, why?

Give a try. State your point and I'll tell you whether or not I understand.

OK, I get it, John, you teach "the hope". What about those other things that have been shown to be erroneous, such as throughly/thoroughly, kingdom of heaven/kingdom of God, etc.....Can you still teach those now that you know they're inaccurate?

Is the PFAL class, and its premises, not an integral part of what TWI meetings promote?

John, JB's question is relevant to the discussion. It's tangential, but not off topic.