waysider

Thanks for that info, krys.

And, the example only serves to illustrate the point.... The whole thing was driven by an effort to increase membership. (Yeah, I know, there are no "members" in The Way.) Increase ranks by selling PFAL to new recruits who would eventually bring a constant flow of cash to the organization via classes and ABS. The classes were a method of obtaining short term profit while ABS was a method of guaranteeing long term profit.

"Does anyone here have any stories or recollection of people who had ambition that was "frightening" in twi?" VPW and his "PFAL Over The World" program

"Either he met Stiles, or he didn't. Why don't you guys question whether he actually met Stiles or not? Because he DID. That's all that matters." Really? That's all that matters? It doesn't matter to me one iota whether or not he ever met Stiles.....because it's totally irrelevant to everything being discussed. As a matter of fact, I happened to meet Brigadier General Paul Tibbets, some years before he died. Was it a memorable experience. Yes. Does it have anything to do with this discussion. Not the least little amount. Maybe VP really met Stiles AND lied about the details of the experience. Have you ever considered that?

I don't think it was so much about selling that one particular book as it was about creating an air of credibility for the whole package.

In the (almost) 30 years I've known my brother-in-law, I don't think I have ever heard anyone address him as or refer to him as "Doctor" even though his PhD is from a very reputable institution and very specialized. I'm not privy to what takes place at the academic level with his peers and subordinates, so I won't discount the possibility completely. I would be surprised if he insisted on it or expected it, though. The contrast to the Wierwille scenario is enlightening.

Dunno

..............So frightening, you'll have to continually remind yourself, "It's only a movie, It's only a movie, It's only........"

There are similar references in The Way: Living In Love. =================================================== also From page 175 "I went to Princeton Theological Seminary in 1940..............so I could get my Master's Degree in Practical Theology."...................... "When I graduated from Princeton, I got my first church in Payne, Ohio. .................We came here in June of 1941" ======================================================== That certainly doesn't leave much time for all those other "accomplishments", now does it? edit: On page 174, VP implies that he attended the University of Chicago Divinity School, as well. "The favorite men who taught me in Lakeland were________.....................At the University of Chicago Divinity School there were_____________."

My 2 cents: 1. Why give it to the bank when you could just as easily give it to The Way? (Actually, this one could apply to charitable donations, which The Way frowned upon, as well.) 2. People with large financial commitments are prone to stay in one place for extended periods of time. (This is not compatible with the nomadic lifestyle required of hard core Way devotees.) Of course, The Way is quite adept at providing "scriptural proof" to bolster whatever their current stance might be on any given issue.

page 180 "Well, on the day God spoke to me, I couldn't believe it. But then I came to the point by the next day where I said to myself-maybe it's true. So the next day I talked to God again. I said,'Lord, if it's really true what you said to me yesterday, if that was really you talking to me, you've got to give me a sign so that I really know, so that I can believe.' "The sky was crystal blue and clear. Not a cloud in sight. It was a beautiful autumn day. I said, 'If that was really you, and you meant what you said, give me a sign. Let me see it snow.' My eyes were shut tightly as I prayed. And then I opened them. "The sky was so white and thick with snow, I couldn't see the tanks at the filling stationon the corner not 75 feet away." ................................. page 198 "So I left the meeting, slipped out, went to my hotel and called the airport. I was all set to check out. But a funny thing happened--there was a blizzard in Tulsa. All the planes were grounded. So I couldn't get a plane. I tried the trains but they were all snowed in. The buses--same thing. The city was snowbound. I just couldn't get out!" ------------------------------------------ Here's what I think. I think the guy was a pathological liar. That certainly explains an awful lot of the discrepancies, now doesn't it?

The Way: living in love Page 175 "Oh yes, did I tell you I taught at Gordon Divinity School? Homeletics was my specialty." ................................................................ Has anyone ever investigated this claim? ............................................................. edit: I sent them an email. Hopefully they will be more responsive than some of the other institutions who were queried.

Is there snow in any of those pictures?

And, yet, Wierwille claimed that, when he was at the end of his rope,debating an exit from ministerial work, he asked God for a sign and.....voila!, the sky turned black with snow. So, which is it? You can ask for a sign or you can't ask for a sign?.....silly little details often seem to spoil a good fib.

This is a case of seriously flawed logic. If NO ONE ever called him on it, it would not change the fact that he didn't have a valid doctorate. His enemies never questioned him on this? I beg to differ. I can remember many personal experiences of defending his credentials and hearing others defending his credentials, while I was still under the mistaken impression they were real. I think we wanted to believe it was all real, just like we wanted to believe there is a Santa Claus. I may be mistaken, but I think Kris may have also related a similar experience in her book. Been a while since I read it. Do you remember if there is anything like that in the book?

So many VP claims, so little time. Like the one about taking all his reference material to the dump and using only the Bible.... or the now infamous snow storm job stories....or the little boy who died because of what his mother was thinking....or the one about the devil sneaking into his desk drawer at night....or "Cancer is a devil spirit."....or the the miraculous withered-hand healing in India, accompanied by the amazing "key to the city" fable.... All outrageous. Are they the "most" outrageous? I don't know. I think that may be a subjective call, tempered by personal experience.

Doesn't sound familiar.

We have friends who live on LBI. Any word on damages to that area?

"Christ's eyes behind your eyes." I could be mistaken, but I think that is from the Advanced Class, possibly the session where Wierwille expounded on his theory of how Word of Knowledge functions. So, how does this work? He's absent, but his eyes are still here? Interesting....very interesting.

Anyone know if THIS is him? "When you write, please share financially as well. We need your regular and sacrificial giving to enable us to continue as "your sound alternative" in this area.You may also authorize monthly gifts via your debit/credit card or your checking account using our Direct Donations program. Or, to make a one-time gift by credit card, click here."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Anq4wdZc2Ow Deadman's Curve------------FREE POST!!

John, if I was intolerant, as you suggest, this conversation would have ended long ago. Again, Dr. John is a stage character, played by a man whose real name is Mac Rebannack. Likewise, Sheriff Andy Tailor is not a real person, he is a character, played by Andy Griffith. See the difference between this an the deception that Wierwille promoted? Wierwille played the part of Dr. Wierwille when he was "on stage", but, in real life, even though he was someone else, he continued to allow people to think he was really the character he played. Nevertheless, you are perfectly free to hold onto whatever you perceive to be of value in PFAL. No one here has told you that you can't do that. I do find it a bit ironic, though, that in the above post, you openly admit you know that Wierwille wasn't really a Dr. And, this dichotomy ("It must be true because Dr. said so...") is the crux of the matter that provoked this thread.