waysider

As I mentioned on another thread recently, when there was a large "healing event" at ROA (1973?), Wierwille did not participate. Instead, he stood on stage, behind the podium, and jabbered away into the microphone. Even though I was supposed to participate in that service ("ALL advanced class grads report to the front of the stage, immediately."), I sat it out and observed from the audience. All I witnessed was the usual "ministering" mumbo-jumbo that had become so common but, on a much larger scale. I did not see anything producing miracles, wonders, healings or any such thing...and I was in a much better position to observe than the participants. As for abundant life: It was clearly promoted, at the outset of PFAL, as being material, even though the principle scripture being utilized (John 10:10) was used out of context. Later, when it became apparent there was error in the teaching, the default explanation was that it was really spiritual. If you didn't understand that, it was your own fault for not believing, not renewing your mind, not speaking in tongues enough, not taking all the available classes, not stringing the chairs precisely enough, not using the correct ratio of yesterday's coffee to stretch the current batch, etc, and so on and so forth.

Thanks for everything you do, Mr. P.!

Well, you probably know, there is a poster who hasn't been here for a while, who seems to think that was the purpose of PFAL.... God-breathed and all that sort of thing.

My mom called it "happy noise".

Heh! Like a letter of reference from the devil!

The Hayflick Limit has nothing to do with contaminated gene pools, dominant/recessive traits, evil behavior or any such thing. It's simply the result of an inherent characteristic of human DNA. Cells have a finite number of times they can reproduce. When they reach that limit, they die. Think of it as being like a battery that has a predetermined number of recharges assigned to it. THIS article, though rather basic, offers some insight into the process.

......and when I opened my eyes, there was snow on the levee and it completely covered all the pirogues. ................Hallelujah!.................

I wonder what makes them think they're immune to the kind of corruption that inevitably finds its way into these types of operations. Surely, they can't think the law of believing is going to protect them.

The human body has an expiration date of 120 years. This raises a whole new set of questions about how time was measured during Biblical times. What did they consider a year? Methuselah, it's written, was something like 900+ years old when he died. That's not physically possible, so, either they measured time differently or there's some kind of symbolism represented ....or something else.

How old was Don when he died of cancer? I'm just curious.

Even if they didn't explicitly teach that you could use believing to live "forever", they certainly expected us to conclude you could extend your life, appreciably, by believing. As Sky pointed out, that's one of the things that presents a huge dilemma when considering the demise of these men who were supposedly pillars of The Way, whose "believing examples" we were supposed to follow..

Singing kids' songs as a group: It's a type of indoctrination. Specifically, it serves to de-emphasize the sense of individuality and reinforce the sense of group. That's why it was frowned upon when people would ad lib motions or words (ie: express individuality). ................in my opinion edit: The "call and response" we so frequently did is also an indoctrination reinforcement tool. Q."Having done all, we do WHAT, class?" A."STAND!"

"Any volunteer may be dismissed at any time and/or program cancelled at sole discretion of those charged with oversight." ...................................................... Deja vu.

I've had the misfortune of working for supervisors that have that ability. They can move around stealthfully and hear 90% of a conversation before you even realize they're nearby. They're masters of micromanagement. It's my opinion they do this because they lack confidence in their own ability to manage legitimately.... I know exactly what you're talking about.

If I had a time machine, I think I'd like to go back (briefly) to The Great Depression/Dustbowl days and get a sense of how people envisioned the future of America. John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath gives us a good glimpse into it but, there is still a certain sense of disconnect that comes with reading it in a book.

Well said.

Hey there, Roy. It's always good to see you. I don't think I would go so far as to say it's a lie. I think, instead, we might consider that the way it's been represented and promoted leaves a lot to be desired. It sounds to me like you've had a bit of an epiphany regarding innerrancy and fundamentalism. In order to put things in perspective, we need to acknowledge that the Bible isn't actually a "book", it's a collection of books and writings, some closely related to others and some not. Wierwille's idea of sequential ordering (doctrine, reproof, correction, etc.,etc.) is a man-made concept. When men sat down to compile the various writings, they had to decide on some sort of order in which to arrange them. That order was influenced by whatever agendas held sway over them at that moment in time. This is why Wierwille's idea of everything having to fit like a hand in a glove is seriously flawed. Everything isn't mathematically accurate or scientifically precise. There really are contradictions.... And, that's O.K. Having to constantly rationalize in order to eliminate contradiction, make things line up, fit together, or whatever term you choose to use, is not O.K, in my opinion. It's an exercise in futility. Some people call that "putting God in a box". It would have to be a pretty big box, one would think. The PFAL class is an attempt to put God in a box, a handy, dandy, all-in-one, packaged kit that includes all the parts. Administrations, to whom it's written, used before, figures of speech, and all the other so-called keys to understanding the Bible are really just man made contrivance. Maybe some of them serve a purpose. Maybe they don't. I don't know. They're still a man-made (prone to error) approach to the subject. Does that negate the "book", itself? Well, I don't know the answer to that. I think it does negate, however, the idea that everything has to fit together neatly or "the whole thing falls apart". When you accept that everything can't possibly fit together neatly, in one little box, it frees you to see things from a whole new, larger perspective.

Isn't there a scripture someplace about entertaining angels in their unner-wears?

It's a progressive, irreversible process that starts at conception. Therefore, you would have to be operating the so-called "law of believing", even at the moment you were conceived, to prevent the inevitable..

I don't remember if it was in a class or publication or what, but, there was a concept that circulated around The Way regarding longevity. It seems, according to Way theology, that one controlled one's own lifespan by virtue of the so-called "law of believing. In other words, you could theoretically live forever, as long as your believing held out. This is but another example of the kind of bad science that found a home in Wayworld. According to scientific studies (specifically those involving the Hayflick Limit) human cells have a finite number of times they can replicate. It's built into the DNA. If you can manage to stay out of the way of runaway dump trucks and steer clear of neighborhoods known for drive-by shootings, the cells in your body will eventually reach a predetermined point at which they can no longer replicate. At that point, they die. Sort of a built in clock. Not even the much heralded "law of believing" can persuade them to do otherwise. Hayflick Limit

I suppose they feel like pioneers or something, .Not hardly.

"To each his own said Farmer Jones, As he kissed Ol' Bossie , the cow."

Always good to see you, Oak. You really need to get yourself a hobby, though, to occupy some of that free time.

When I left for good, I felt tremendously guilty for having forsaken "the one true household". After finding GSC and finally coming to an understanding of what really took place, I felt kind of foolish for ever feeling guilty. (But, it was a good kind of foolish.) For goodness sakes, it was just a a 2 bit cult. Nothing "special" about it at all. There's no reason to ever feel guilty about walking away from a cult. If anything, maybe people who DON'T walk away should feel guilty for enabling the furtherance of the sham.

How would they know who you are? I mean, they always said there were no membership lists.