waysider

That's a dove? I thought it was a buzzard, dropping in to feast on a rotting carcase.

You don't have to identify the language or even the message. You simply need to have someone validate that the recorded samples meet the mathematical criteria established for identifying structured language.

"Unless one can fake it unknowingly. But then it should sound like jibberish." Why would it necessarily sound like jibberish? The links that Excie posted don't sound like jibberish but, I doubt they demonstrate an actual language. If they do, someone who is skilled in information theory should be able to mathematically graph them without even specifically identifying them. Even so, they could be simply scripted, as we don't have any evidence they were spontaneously produced.

My take on what may or may not have happened beyond the day of Pentecost is this: The record of what happened on The Day of Pentecost seems to establish an identifying criteria for what would then become known as speaking in tongues. That criteria involved the speakers uttering known languages. Languages have structure. Having words that are from a recognizable language is not substantial enough evidence to meet the criteria of structure. Sometimes, in The Way, there were valid words interspersed in the interpretation messages, but, there was no recognizable linguistic structure.. What we did in The Way does not meet the necessary criteria to be equated with the Pentecost experience.

Even if they have been around since 1942, how long has it been since they've done anything that even remotely resembles research? :B)

I don't see any real evidence that having doubts about speaking in tongues would make you an atheist. Lots and lots of Christians have disputed the veracity of speaking in tongues. Surely, they can't all be atheists.

"*Sniff, sniff, sniff*. I gave my EYE for you kids. *Sniff*"

The crayons are free. (When you make a "donation")

I wonder if cannibals think free range Baptists taste like chicken.

So, then, why do so many of the off-shoots want to REMEMBER all the "wonderful" things Wierwille stood for? Shouldn't they just leave that stuff behind, too?

Now that sounds like an experiment that's do-able. Record it. Plot it. See what you get.

Pardon me if this seems crass, but, it sounds like the sort of project that might appeal to a certain poster who has done something similar with PFAL.

Information theory (Relative to topic at hand) Squirrels only....HERE

"...the main difference being Hendricks did the monolog instead of Weirwille." Oh, I hope he wore those skinny ties like Wierwille did. It just wouldn't be the same without them.

I guess you just have to hope they'll follow Peter Pan's advise to "never grow up".

This is what happens when you stop speaking in tongues.

Oh, you missed the best part. Get a bunch of sucker kids to do the dirty work for free. No, wait! Make them actually pay you for the "privilege" of working. What could go wrong?

Ya know, the inverse of this "building up the inner man" thing was a feeling that, somehow, if you ever quit speaking in tongues, some sort of internal atrophy would take place. Maybe that's what really happened in The Wizard of Oz. The evil witch quit speaking in tongues and just shriveled right up...... I haven't shriveled up yet. Has anyone else?

Oh, Lordy, here we go with Biblical comparisons again. :biglaugh:

The Way dispensed "counseling" as freely as some dispense trick-or-treat candy on Halloween. What training did they offer their leaders that would qualify them to provide this service? If anyone had credentials, it would have to be because they brought them with them when they entered the organization. It's not likely many leaders got credentials from an outside source during their involvement, as The Way frowned heavily on that sort of thing. Wierwille set the stage for denigrating secular therapies and treatments early in the foundational class on Power For Abundant Living, when he belittled the value of "world wisdom".

I just love these posts from people who weren't there but are SURE they know what happened. How refreshing.

From Kris' book, Losing The Way: From Chapter Sixteen: Picture this. You’re on a cruise ship sailing through the Caribbean. The weather is balmy, bright afternoon sunshine, soft breeze, not too hot, not too cold. Just right. You’re on the deck sunning just as you’ve been doing every day for fifteen years. You wear a shocking pink two-piece bathing suit to offset a dark tan. Your book, a mystery, lies open face down on the floor next to a dripping pina colada. Your eyes are closed under dark sunglasses. Late in the day, clouds start to roll in. The water becomes choppy. The captain hobbles by and greets you. You do not notice his peg leg and the black patch over his right eye. He says a storm is blowing in. It would be best if you went down below. You thank him, as you have done every day for fifteen years, and you gather your things. He is such a nice captain. Only this day is different. This time, when you open your eyes, you take off your sunglasses. You look up. You notice a black flag with the white skull and cross bones flying overhead. Has this flag always been there? Where is the American flag that was there yesterday? Something is wrong. This is not the Love Boat. This is a pirate’s ship. You ask your husband, a crewmember. Do you see the flag? Do you see what I see? He aspires to become First Mate. He does not want to see it. You tell him you and he should leave. He does not want to leave. He becomes angry when you tell him what you have seen. He does not believe you. You take off his dark glasses. Tell him to look. He sees the flag. He confronts the Captain. The Captain hands him a sword. Arm yourself, my boy, says the Captain. Protect the Queen’s one true flagship.

And don't forget the wacko "initiation into the inner sanctum", complete with blindfolds, black robes, incantations and burning incense. In case my point is not clear: We were supposed to burn our books, favorite albums, works of art, change the names of holidays so that we wouldn't be inviting "devil spirits" into our lives. Meanwhile, here's the supposed MOG, carrying out an elaborate joke by staging a pseudo satanic mass (or whatever the hell it was supposed to be) only hours after teaching us the very session of the advanced class that cautions about dabbling in witchcraft at any level.

Ummmmm.......You know he wasn't really a "Dr.", don't you?