waysider

This is really a stretch john. "Today, many of us are dependent on things like automobiles, radio, TV, the internet, texting, cell phones, and many other appliances or machines. No such thing in Jesus' culture." They were, of course, dependent on their culture's equivalent of the things you listed. They depended on donkeys, vessels for transporting water, fire keepers, town criers, devices for manufacturing clothing and on and on. "The only thing they were dependent on was studying the OT......." The common man did not *study* the O.T. The common man was, for the most part, illiterate. "All VP/pfal did was replace whatever we were dependent on with studying the word." There are two distinct problems with this. First: He didn't "replace what we were dependent on", he usurped our freedom of choice, what we could eat, when we could sleep, who we could date, who we could marry, when and if we could have children, etc.. Second: You are assuming what we were presented was indeed "The Word". It wasn't "The Word", it was his private interpretation of what he thought the word ought to say. It was the version that best suited his own agenda. I would go as far as to say that comparing our lifestyle in The Way to the lifestyle of people who lived 2,000 years ago is like comparing pomegranates to radial tires.

He was making an appeal to consequences.

This is a guy who preached against "private interpretation" (another scripture used out of context) and then proceeded to build an entire organization on that very practice.

It's nothing more than a blatant attempt at manipulation, albeit with a Biblical veneer.

What I see here is that Wierwille is preconditioning his followers to reject any forthcoming criticism from his previous congregation. He plied this same tactic on us in PLAF (The Wonder Class). He was just an egocentric, manipulative old S.O.B. edit: "---we must continue to "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." He was fond of quoting this scripture out of context in order to make it say something other than what it was really saying.

It was like giving someone money and finding out they flushed it down the crapper. I don't know if The Way still teaches this but, they used to teach that it didn't matter what a recipient did with a gift, the giver was the one who got blessed for their giving. Looking back, I can see it was just a way of rationalizing their misuse of funds. Here's the thing......If The Way really believed what they taught about giving, it shouldn't have mattered so much to them when people gave to non-Way causes. But, we all know it pizzed them off big time if you gave to anything other than "the ministry".

Staying in those non-air conditioned trailers at HQ in the middle of a muggy Ohio August. Now there's a memory I could do without.

There are a lot of ways to define success. One way that works for me is that you set a goal and reach it. Did The Way do this? Nope.

Groups (cults) like The Way rely on the ability to separate participants from non-participants. You can call it dis-fellowshipping, shunning, mark and avoid, tripping out, excommunication, yoked with unbelievers or anything you want. At its core, it's all about the same thing, creating a chasm between "us" and "them". Unless The Way has found some unique method of deviated from this common practice, I find it hard to believe it no longer happens.

What kind of "leader", upon learning of the deadly aspects of LEAD, wouldn't call for an immediate halt to the program? Could it be the same kind of leader who, after hearing a depondant young lady express thoughts of suicide, responded by saying, "Take off your clothes. I'll show you what's good about being alive."?

"See? Obedience is the highest form of learning. " Like when Gary D. died and Wierwille used the incident to teach that disobedience to the MOG could result in death?

Sometimes it seems so surreal I catch myself wondering if it was just a dream.

Yeah, I figured out that much. Now what do I do with 57 gazillion bite sized mints?

2x

He repeated a lot of things he either didn't understand, himself, or misunderstood completely. I don't think it bothered him to do that as long as people kept coming back for more. He never really learned how to learn, he learned how to exploit the learning of others.

"Unless you learn how to do it, you can't go beyond what others teach you." That's the purpose of higher education...learning how to learn. Wierwille wanted us to "learn" via his system of learning. The caveat, of course, was that he imposed himself upon us as The Teacher.

I see your point, now, and find I must agree with you. One thing I do need to clarify for those who were never part of one of these programs: These programs were in NO way geared toward scholastic achievement. Sometimes I would talk to people from back home and could tell they were under the impression we were getting some special, privileged academic training. Absolutely untrue. It was the same old yada, yada we heard over and over and over at the local level. It was dressed up give it a new appearance but you know what they say about a pig and lipstick. Most of it was designed toward getting us to relinquish to a certain commune-like lifestyle, to conform to a uniform way of thinking that was intended to promote PFAL..

I spent three years there and can count the number of times VPW visited us, without using any fingers...... Zip, zero, nada, never. Remember, he had a private airplane and we had an airstrip right down the road. The whole trip, start to finish, wouldn't have consumed an entire Saturday morning. I can only surmise he didn't give a rat's azz one way or another how we were doing, as long as it didn't steal any thunder from HQ.

And, the "training programs" took it one step further, combining immersion with isolation....no phones, no T.V., no outside associating with non-program persons, no spare time for personal interests, etc. When I studied a foreign language in high school, the first year was an introduction. The second and subsequent years were structured as immersion, no conversing in English while in class. Once you left the classroom, though, there was no isolation. You were free to speak English with whomever you pleased. This is where the "training programs" took it to a level that was not seen or known by the average believer in a local twig fellowship. And, there were consequences for violating this aspect of such programs. It wasn't just immersion, it was total immersion. In the least common denominator, it was behavior modification. Whenever I had a chance to connect with family members back home, who happened to be Way believers, I felt it was somehow my duty to conceal that reality from them. I guess, in my mind, I thought they might interpret that as simply my being too weak for the experience. It was counter-intuitive. I should have, instead, shouted it from the rooftops to warn others who might have wanted to follow in my footsteps.

"You can't go beyond what you're taught."-----VPW (PFAL) Ridiculous! Great ideas don't come all wrapped in pretty paper with a colorful ribbon on top. They evolve. Some evolve quickly and some evolve slowly. Liken the process to a myriad of small streams, merging into a river. That's how it happens. If we relied solely on what we were taught, mankind would still be limited to a vocabulary of "Ugh!". I think, in his subtle way, Wierwille was setting us up for a lifestyle of dependency. Don't be afraid to go exploring. Some of the little streams may have already gone dry but others might lead you to raging rivers.

What does one do with a 2 lb. peppermint twist? (I got it for Christmas.) I have no idea.

It's all too far over my head. (Said the miner, whilst contemplating his freedom) It reminds me of song.

Lots of good responses on this one. Years ago, I did a work related mental exercise to increase observational abilities. The idea was to try to observe as much information in a short period of time as possible. For example: Pick someone out in the grocery store checkout line. What clothes were they wearing? Did they have any detectable odor of perfume? Was there any visible emotion in their expression? How tall or short were they? Did they seem overweight or underweight? The lesson in this was that one can condition oneself to be keenly aware of surroundings. Given the proper amount of coaching, I believe it's possible for a person to start to think that their observation skills are more than they really are. To complicate matters, some will interpret their observations in a manner that does not reflect reality. I think this is what happened, to some extent, in The Way. edit: It was never my intention to refute divine revelation. I was thinking more about how some people (myself included) allowed themselves to believe they were somehow super-humans in contrast to the "empties floating by". I've seen this in other fundamentalist groups besides The Way, as well.

Context, George. It's a known fact that Wierwille denigrated "World Wisdom" frequently, beginning with his disparaging remarks in PFAL.

Is death event #2 or just a subset of event #1?