waysider

"You can't go beyond what you're taught."-----VPW (PFAL) Ridiculous! Great ideas don't come all wrapped in pretty paper with a colorful ribbon on top. They evolve. Some evolve quickly and some evolve slowly. Liken the process to a myriad of small streams, merging into a river. That's how it happens. If we relied solely on what we were taught, mankind would still be limited to a vocabulary of "Ugh!". I think, in his subtle way, Wierwille was setting us up for a lifestyle of dependency. Don't be afraid to go exploring. Some of the little streams may have already gone dry but others might lead you to raging rivers.

What does one do with a 2 lb. peppermint twist? (I got it for Christmas.) I have no idea.

It's all too far over my head. (Said the miner, whilst contemplating his freedom) It reminds me of song.

Lots of good responses on this one. Years ago, I did a work related mental exercise to increase observational abilities. The idea was to try to observe as much information in a short period of time as possible. For example: Pick someone out in the grocery store checkout line. What clothes were they wearing? Did they have any detectable odor of perfume? Was there any visible emotion in their expression? How tall or short were they? Did they seem overweight or underweight? The lesson in this was that one can condition oneself to be keenly aware of surroundings. Given the proper amount of coaching, I believe it's possible for a person to start to think that their observation skills are more than they really are. To complicate matters, some will interpret their observations in a manner that does not reflect reality. I think this is what happened, to some extent, in The Way. edit: It was never my intention to refute divine revelation. I was thinking more about how some people (myself included) allowed themselves to believe they were somehow super-humans in contrast to the "empties floating by". I've seen this in other fundamentalist groups besides The Way, as well.

Context, George. It's a known fact that Wierwille denigrated "World Wisdom" frequently, beginning with his disparaging remarks in PFAL.

Is death event #2 or just a subset of event #1?

Here are some excepts from the AC syllabus (pgs.5,6) WORD OF KNOWLEDGE It is not human knowledge highly developed----It is not guessing or imagination---It is not your analysis of a situation-you ascertain this by Word of Knowledge. WORD OF WISDOM It is not wisdom acquired by the five senses---It is not natural wisdom stemming from experience as the best teacher---It is not practical wisdom---It is not your analysis of what to do about a situation. And, we were supposed to actively seek to excel at these practices, rather than rely on common sense. Is it any wonder so many of us made bad life-decisions??

This is where it gets weird. Part of the idea being taught in the advanced class was that sometimes you have to deliberately defy common sense and rely on your "super human" powers instead. Wierwille gave some example about a guy, who contrary to what common sense was telling him, went to a very busy train station and, defeating the odds, instantly located his wife, about whom he had no travel information. (I suspect the incident was another one of Wierwille's many fabrications.) I don't recall all the specifics. I guess there was this idea that what you THOUGHT was common sense was really the devil trying to trick you out of revelation. We really did live in a "bizzaro" kind of world, didn't we?

I find comfort in knowing there will always be a big bag of familia and a bottle of figpep waiting for me, stashed somewhere deep in one of the cupboards.

Literal translation according to usage Original: "I don't understand it." Translation: "It's spiritual."

According to the Advanced Class syllabus, the revelation manifestations involve "certain truths or facts concerning any situation about which it is humanly impossible for you, by your five senses, to know anything". As you stated, the scientific community now recognizes that humans receive sensory input from more than just the basic five senses we have come to know. So, either the definition is inaccurate in its limiting itself to only the five senses or people who are keenly attuned to information arriving via their Jacobson's Organ, for example, are, by definition, receiving revelation because pheromone recognition is not grouped with the usual five senses. Of course, that would mean that non-human creatures might also be capable of receiving "revelation", as they are not relying entirely on the usual five senses to receive said information either..

Could it be because they think it doesn't stink?

Well, there ya go.....thinkin' again.

This brings up an interesting point. What about people who had diminished capacity in one or more of the five senses? How does a blind person "see through Christ's eyes"? How does a deaf person "hear through Christ's ears"? It seems a bit unfair to me that they should have gotten short changed, simply because they had a disability.

I understand, of course, that some people have a keener sense of smell than others. If you remember anything about the Advanced Class definitions for revelation, though, this is something that was supposed to be beyond the realm of anything you could possibly know by your five (natural) senses.

Peer pressure and conformity were a huge part of the various "training" programs.

I was at a pizza joint with about a half dozen other believers. When the pizza arrived, the senior most person present told us not to eat the pizza. He said it was spoiled. We all took a quick whiff. It smelled fine. He explained that he didn't smell it with his own nose but smelled it with the nose of Christ which was inside his nose. We didn't eat it and guess what. None of us got sick. Imagine that.

Did you feel like you had super human powers when you were in The Way? I don't mean the usual kind of stuff that most Christians talk about like "more than a conqueror" and so forth. I mean things like how your eyes could supposedly see things that mere mortals could not see, your ears could hear things normal beings could not, your sense of smell being heightened beyond the normal human range, etc. (Christ's eyes behind your eyes) For many people, an ability to operate these "powers" was one of the main draws of the Advanced Class. Revelation was supposedly the key that unlocked the door to these special abilities. In two short weeks we were supposed to transform from Clark Kent to Superman. What a disappointment it was to find there were no phone booths to change clothes in at HQ.

Technology is probably the ONLY reason their twisted dogma persists. Without youtube, JL would probably be unloading trucks with LCM.

Or, maybe it was just time for a little change of pace. Change can be good, sometimes. I'm glad you enjoyed the occasion.

OK, that's attempt #2 at dragging down this thread. Only this time, you decided to give me a backhanded slap in the process. Don't do that again. If you want to participate in this thread, simply stick to the subject and leave personal slams out of the content.

I have a photograph of myself that was taken when I was six or seven years old. I had just broken my arm (for the first time) and was sporting a brand new cast. Should I keep it or let it go?

The only explanation I can offer for anyone returning would be that they are dealing with cognitive dissonance. How else can a reasonable person base life-altering decisions on a system as flawed as the "law of believing"? Once you understand and accept how invalid the law of believing is, the veracity of their whole theological system starts to crumble. It's like trying to believe in the tooth fairy all over again.

Thank you, Twinky. I hope you have a wonderful new year.

Good to see you again, Nero. I don't claim to have any answers but you can PM me anytime if you think it might help.