waysider

It looks like a good read but perhaps a bit too much for me, having grown up not far from where this happened.

"Say goodnight, Gracie." "Goodnight, Gracie."

Disagreement can sometimes be a good thing if it leads to enlightenment.

"Is it one of those non literal teachings or something that was messed up in translation?" ....or maybe both.

Not really where you're going but THIS place would be a cool side trip.

It may be in the Bible but it is literally impossible to have dew with no water cycle in play.

I don't want to run this off track but the title reminded me of that old Three Dog Night song where the lyrics say " ".

Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing any particular type of work, be it washing windows, cleaning toilets or whatever. What I'm criticizing is the idea that you should make your choice in a way that focuses on promoting The Way. Work is work. We all have to do it. There are still many cultures in the world where people marry by prearrangement. Sometimes they work out, sometimes they don't. I won't lump them in the same category as the "any two" marriages because the motivation that drives this practice is not the same. They're not designed to promote some goombah's pyramid scheme.

The Great Principle: flawed logic at its best One part of Way Theology states that spirit can only talk to spirit, yet The Great Principle states your spirit teaches your mind. It makes no sense. I think VPW must have lifted TGP from some source he didn't quite understand. Here's why I believe this. If you look closely at the visual depiction of TGP (sorry, I don't have a scanner.) you will notice it is not a big triangle, it's one triangle inside another triangle inside another triangle, the sides being very closely oriented. I think whoever dreamed up this TGP meant this to be somehow suggestive of a Trinity, something Wierwile would not have ever done.

I remember Real Clean and Steed. I knew people involved in both of them. Another venture some tried was small scale landscaping operations.

This is somewhat tangential to the mass wedding thing. Wiewille taught (I think in CF&S) that it didn't matter who you married because "any two believers can make a marriage work." The long and short of it is that this arrangement of "any two" was intended to produce a sort of tag team for promoting PFAL and The Way. I can tell you, first hand, that this point was specifically addressed in the premarital counselling I was required to take in order to be married by an ordained clergy. It's sad, really, getting married in order to become a sales team for The Way. Mine lasted about 4 years. Now the window washing thing. Sky hit it on the head. It was about flexibility. At the same time window washing was becoming popular, there were others who tried the same route doing late-night janitorial work and some who tried doing independent sales rep.jobs. The "any two" marriages and the self employment push shared a common characteristic. They were both designed to facilitate a life style that was focused on promoting PFAL and The Way.

Exactly!

Statute of Limitations is a key factor. Many of the things people wish they could sue The Way for have long exceeded the allowable time limit. The type of activity and where it took place also come into play. Murder, for example, is not governed by time or place. (as far as I know)---- The Sann incidents, however, appear to be inside an enforceable window of time.

I don't want to run this off-track or initiate a meta discussion but I was bothered by this bit of contradictory information in the article: "One of the hallmarks of the Way — and, in the beginning, the River Road Fellowship — was the belief that everyone should read and interpret the Bible for themselves, rather than rely on clergy, the inner-circle member said." While it could be argued that the stated intent of PFAL was to enable the student to come to a self-understanding of the Bible, I think we all know we were supposed to only accept opinions that conformed to Way Theology (opinions that were formed by those who were supposedly "more knowledgeable" than us.). This point, in my opinion, somewhat explains why Barnard wasn't questioned more closely by his followers.

Sorry, this is a weak analogy, as well as a red herring. There is quite a difference between receiving a product you never requested and finding the product you requested was misrepresented.

Regardless of where he is, it's just a matter of time. Karma is a mean old lady.

The "programs" were like a boot camp that never ends. ("Do what we say, when we say, how we say, if we say.") At least the military has a vision for how they would like you to advance, once you've progressed past the initial indoctrination.

Wierwille wouldn't have known real leadership ability if it bit him on the arse. He, himself, was not a leader. He was an arrogant bully who acted like a spoiled brat when he didn't get his way.

Don and Harry W. both died of cancer, too. And now John L has cancer, as well. So much for the greatness of the Advanced Class.

For those who have never read the article dealing with actual errors in PFAL, here is a link. HERE

Wierwille was not always consistent in his stance on the Trinity. For example, in the PFAL class, he goes into a homoletic rant about how "Christ is coming back as God Almighty". As class instructors, we were expressly taught to gloss over this section of the class and explain it away as an emotional slip of the tongue, fueled by Wierwille's Trinitarian past. That was filmed in 1967. In later times, he speaks in veiled condescendence of other men, such as Bishop K.C. Pillai, who held Trinitarian beliefs. On one hand he praised Pillai for his "knowledge" of Oriental customs and on the other hand subtly criticized his Trinitarian position. Wierwille compared the Trinity concept to a common household product, saying it was like calling God "3 in 1 oil". (His own words) My own belief on this matter is not relevant. What matters is that Wierwille was perfectly willing to adjust his story about anything to suit the ears of the audience. He was a flim-flam man. That's what they do.

VP had lots of fun tooling around on one of .jpg"]THESE so you wouldn't have to.

From what I understand, he talked to Doop or Heefner about the possibility of going to orgies, but I don't know if he ever followed through and went. Of course, the mere fact that he inquired is enough to make me suspicious of his intentions.

I'm sorry my post seemed so callous. I know this must be an extremely difficult time for him and I certainly wish him all the best. I hope you will accept my apology.

I'm not sure about the "REAL" sort of thing. My Mom didn't know a whole lot of scripture but I think she understood the overall messages it conveyed much better than many of the so-called leaders. She knew tons about how to love your neighbor and treat everyone with respect. Without that much, the rest is just another Sunday School lesson.