waysider

It's interesting how we, as outsiders, can look at Hubbard's story, examine the facts and easily reach a logical conclusion. When it comes to the famous "snow on the gas pump stories" of Wierwille, however, there are some who will always insist on ignoring reality. I'm just sayin'.

Wierwille sure liked to spin a good yarn...developing the hook shot, inventing fast food, making snow explode, blah, blah, blah. Well, it seems he wasn't alone in that respect. L. Ron Hubbard, of Scientology fame, was known to spin a few whoppers, as well. Consider this one, for example: ........................................................................... Claims of submarine contact off Cape Lookout[edit] In the early hours of 19 May 1943, the crew of PC-815 detected what Hubbard thought was first one then later two Imperial Japanese Navy submarines approximately 10 nautical miles (19 km) off the shore of Cape Lookout. Both the SONAR operator and Lt. Hubbard himself thought that the echo of an active sonar ping, combined with apparent engine noises heard through the ship's hydrophone indicated contact with a submarine.[4] Over the next 68 hours, the ship expended 37 depth charges in a "battle" that also involved the U.S. Navy blimps K-39 and K-33, the United States Coast Guard patrol boats Bonham and 78302, and the subchasers USS SC-536 and USS SC-537, all summoned to act as reinforcements. PC-815 was finally ordered back to base on 21 May.[5] In his eighteen page after-action report, Hubbard claimed to have "definitely sunk, beyond doubt" one submarine and critically damaged another. However, the subsequent investigation by the Commander NW Sea Frontier, Vice Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, cast a skeptical light on Hubbard's claims. His summary memorandum to Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, stated: It is noted that the report of PC 815 is not in accordance with "Anti-Submarine Action by Surface Ship" (ASW-1) which should be submitted to Commander in Chief, U.S. Fleet.[6] An analysis of all reports convinces me that there was no submarine in the area. Lieutenant Commander Sullivan states that he was unable to obtain any evidence of a submarine except one bubble of air which is unexplained except by turbulence of water due to a depth charge explosion. The Commanding Officers of all ships except the PC-815 state they had no evidence of a submarine and do not think a submarine was in the area.[7] Fletcher added that "there is a known magnetic deposit in the area in which depth charges were dropped", absolving the responding blimps from any fault as their method of detecting submarines relies on a Magnetic Anomaly Detector. This also implied that Lt. Hubbard and his crew were operating the ship's SONAR equipment incorrectly.[8] After the war, British and American analysis of captured Japanese Navy records confirmed that no Japanese submarines had been lost off the Oregon coast.[9] Hubbard, however, never accepted that he had been mistaken about the "battle." Both he and Tom Moulton, one of his officers, claimed that the official denials of any Japanese submarine presence off the Pacific coast had been motivated by a desire to avoid panic among the U.S. population.[10] Years later, Hubbard told Scientologists: I dropped the I-76 or the Imperial Japanese Navy Trans-Pacific Submarine down into the mouth of the Columbia River, dead duck. And it went down with a resounding furor. And that was that. I never thought about it again particularly except to get mad at all the admirals I had to make reports to because of this thing, see? This was one out of seventy-nine separate actions that I had to do with. And it had no significance, see? But the other day I was kind of tired, and my dad suddenly sprung on me the fact that my submarine had been causing a tremendous amount of difficulty in the mouth of the Columbia River. Hadn't thought about this thing for years. Of course, it's all shot to ribbons, this thing. It's got jagged steel sticking out at all ends and angles, and it's a big submarine! It's a — I don't know, about the size of the first Narwhal that we built. And the fishermen coming in there and fishing are dragging their nets around in that area, and it's just tearing their nets to ribbons — they've even hired a civilian contractor to try to blow the thing up and get it the devil out of there — and has evidently been raising bob with postwar fishing here for more years than I'd care to count.[11] However, the mouth of the Columbia River is some 75 miles north of Cape Lookout, the area in which Hubbard's naval reports claimed his anti-submarine action took place SOURCE I guess it must be some kind of cult leader "thing". I don't understand.

They were stuck in idle for a long time. Then they just stalled out. Now the battery is dead and the jumper cables are nowhere to be found.

Great song...Beautiful voice....Powerful message

He said "Write The Teacher.". I don't think he ever said "The Teacher will write you back.".

The "law of believing' and the "manifestations": The link-up that ties the satellites to the mother ship, all these decades later.

VPW fit the classic profile of a serial bully, constantly "moving the goal posts", sabotaging work efforts, taking credit for others work, public humiliation, and so forth. He was by no means a man worthy of adulation or emulation. Just another two-bit bully. Bullying was the only real "skill" he excelled at.

Wierwille wasn't interested in reaching "the unreachable". If he had been, he would have looked for ways to make PLAF (The Wonder Class) freely available to the masses, "Word Over The World!" and all that jazz..Instead, he put all his efforts into developing a clever multi-level-marketing scheme, using intentionally plagiarized, flawed *research* and creating a charismatic persona for himself, usurping the talents of unsuspecting devotees.

What could be cheesier than a fake standing ovation?

" So I feel a sense of freedom to be who I am." It's an appropriate day to feel like you're free. Happy Independence Day.

"Hookay, back to your thread, sorry for hijacking it." That's not hijacking. The pre-sermon applause is exactly the kind of scripted thing I'm referring to. Only, I'm more interested in how you felt when you suddenly realized you'd been used as an actor in a scripted performance.

Cool! Now THAT'S how compare and contrast works.

Sunesis no longer posts here. When she did, she posted of an experience she had with VPW. It seems the two of them were having a casual conversation under a shade tree, when a third party came into the vicinity. VPW had some sort of beef with the person about a previous incident. He jumped right into character and lambasted the other person. After the person left, he winked and settled right back into a relaxed mode, telling Sunesis (I'm paraphrasing.) "Sometimes you have to get spiritually angry." That's a staged presentation, though it didn't involve an actual stage. He knew he was doing it. He indicated that much in his conversation. The thing is, we didn't always know we were doing it. We were, at times, playing off a script that had been written for us and didn't even know it.

In my opinion, this would fit well in the Staged Presentations thread, as well.

I'm not trying to silence anyone. John is perfectly free to disagree with anything said here and openly express his disagreement. All I'm asking is that he adhere to the rules and try to give a logical explanation for his position, rather than constantly trying to usurp threads that are critical of The Way and its derivatives. He could have put the thread right back on track by answering the question I asked him. Can we return to topic now?

And so it circles back to perception...The mystique of holding your very own, hardbound copies of something so special.

Shouldn't one assume that any edited and published work would follow some sort of ordered sequence? It's like saying a carpenter was good at his craft because he managed to put nails in the boards.

"BTW, I'm not changing the subject. I'm contrasting and comparing." It's not clear to me what you are contrasting and comparing. Would you care to elaborate?

John, with all due respect, what is the purpose of trying to compare two entirely different things? Your experience at a splinter fellowship has nothing to do with the subject as it was presented. If you don't agree with the original premise, that's fine. You're free to say so. But please stop trying to negate the experiences of other posters.

You can post all you want, as evidenced by the fact that...well...you just did. Try, though, to stay on topic and follow the rules. As to me being intolerant, you're certainly free to have that opinion. Back to topic You indicate that TWI was intolerant of you when you disagreed with them. ("You're just as intolerant of being disagreed with as twi ever was.") How did you feel when you realized you could only stay in their graces if you agreed with them?

I don't think you'll be sent to doctrinal for calling them a couple of heartless blowhards.

The books started out as little pamphlets that later became the chapters of the books. My best guess is that Wierwille put them into book form to give the class an appearance of legitimacy, to create a perception.

Are we discussing the drug culture or The Way International? The original intent of this discussion is not only to illustrate how Way events were often staged but to explore personal reactions to realizing you were an unwitting participant to the staging. In other words, how did you feel when you discovered or suspected you were being used to further a scam and that you were behaving in a manner that wasn't representative of the real you?

You invited my response by comparing yelling (a subset of staged performances, the subject being discussed) to athletes in the spirit. I didn't discuss it, I asked if you needed further elaboration, in which case we could have moved the athletes in the spirit topic to its appropriate forum. No additional meta discussion is needed at this point.