waysider

That's what I meant when I referred to their cognitive dissonance. edit: I didn't state that clearly. I meant that not as a condemnation of homosexuality but as a condemnation of their reasoning process.

There are several aspects to this that could be looked at individually or collectively. The first aspect, of course, is his personal history of molestation. Is there a parallel to the lifestyle they lived and the way we lived in The Way? I can't really say. "Reality" TV is notorious for being anything but real, so we can't really know how they lived. That makes comparison of the two lifestyles difficult, if not impossible. I do know there was child molestation in The Way. Some even resulted in documented convictions and prison time for the perpetrators. I fear too much went unreported, though. Wierwille, himself, stood before groups of Way Corps students (documented on GSC by people who were present) and recounted personal incidents that amount to sexual abuse of one of his own children. Did he molest this individual? The person involved says he didn't. Regardless, he stood before vulnerable students and openly made the claim, whether it was true or not. I think (only my personal opinion) that he made this claim as part of an on-going grooming of potential victims. Collectively speaking, we can't ignore that the family made a concerted effort to sweep this under the carpet, both when it happened and as it has been recently revisited. This sounds frighteningly similar to The Way's "lockbox" policy and their insistence on keeping indiscretion hidden, "lest the ministry be blamed". The denial and cognitive dissonance of parties involved is another aspect that is all too familiar to past members of The Way. edit: Maybe this will evolve to a point of belonging in About The Way.

When I first became involved in the early 1970's, everything was freewheeling. We had spontaneous fellowships, picnics, potlucks, bar hopping recruitment events, and so on. We had fun. The commitment aspect ramped-up slowly. As time went on, the expectation of commitment became such that you were seen as dead weight if you weren't interested in taking on more responsibility. Training program recruitment became more and more prevalent. I opted for a program that was touted as a way to gain 2 years of in-depth, in-residence leadership training and then return home more qualified as a leader. Maybe that's what B.G. Leonard had in mind. I never took his class (the forerunner of what would become VPW's PFAL) so I don't really know. What I really got was a chance to see what life is like in a religious commune. There was very little formal training of any sort..... leadership, scriptural or otherwise. Every waking moment was controlled, when you awoke, when you slept, what and when you ate, even if and when you were permitted to have intimate time with your spouse. It was not at all like what I had signed on for nor did it resemble my earlier experiences. Quite frankly, it was a bait and switch to recruit drones for "the ministry". You couldn't question it, you couldn't voice disagreement. You had to keep you mouth shut and do what you were told, lest you be accused of being weak or devil possessed. For people who only experienced the first part of my description or who experienced an augmented version of the training programs, I can see why they might be at a loss to understand why one can't just walk away and forget it all. It's ingrained in the psyche, like layers of an onion. Peel away one layer and another appears to take its place. I don't think you can really understand the concept unless you've experienced it. I give those people the benefit of a doubt and hope they'll be kind enough to do the same for me.

"If you hear him howlin' 'round your kitchen door, better not let him in." Yep, sounds like it's on topic to me.

Right on he money, even down to the part about her critics bashing her.

We could go 'round and 'round forever and never really know. The only one who could have answered that is not longer able to respond. However, we know from various writings that he had almost given up on ministry work until he was inspired by the power and control such a career choice could offer. We also know that "Uncle" Harry claimed that VP would supposedly sneak away from his chores, as a boy, to practice preaching, delivering sermons to the trees in the woods. I can't tell you if he ever did this or not but I can tell you that a very similar story appears in the writings of Rev. Billy Graham of how he did this, as a ministerial student, to overcome his shyness. And then there's the account VP gave of healing a man in India, in the 1950's, that sounds suspiciously like the record of such an incident in Mark chapter 3. To me, at least, it seems he chose a crooked path from the very beginning of the journey.

Well, he did heal that guy in India from the back of a train, even though the guy said he didn't believe in Jesus. ;)

You...you mean the snow on the gas pumps story wasn't real???? Well, shut the front door. Next thing you'll be saying is that his doctorate was phony. Ladies and gentlemen, it's been a DISGRACE to have been in this fellowship this evening!! :lol:

Get off my lawn!! Nah. Nobody's gonna throw you out. :lol:

Farewell to a gentle giant.

Now if 6 turned out to be 9, I don't mind, I don't mind. .....Jimi Hendrix

Sometimes, it's your only chance at having an intelligent conversation.

I mean things like Pressed Down, Good Seed, etc. My personal experience is that I had written a good deal of material before I became involved and then tried to tailor it to make it Way friendly. When I tried to write things that would specifically express the Way agenda, my creativity became stifled. That's just my personal experience, though.

My impression of some of the very early material is that the artists may have already created it BEFORE their involvement with The Way and then tailored it to fit the prescribed agenda. I don't know if any of them post here but I extend an invitation to any of the early artists to discuss the matter.

But, what kind of glove..... work glove, surgical glove, driving glove, catcher's mitt, snow mittens?

Was it really 45 years ago? OHIO

The only memories it stirs in me involve old folks in rocking chairs, groovin' on Lawrence Welk.

O.K., here's where chronology comes into play. We know the Gospels were written after the Epistles. However, as per the Canon (the order in which things appear in the Bible), they are situated in the Bible in a position that precedes the Epistles. This makes it seem like they were written first. It fits handily with the dispensational tenets if we assign them to a period that is out of chronological sequence with the scriptures. Hence, the Christ Administration comes into play before the Grace Administration. This helps to resolve contradictions that would be bothersome if we simply assigned the scriptures their proper chronological order..... Doesn't fit? No problem, just assign it to another administration and say it wasn't addressed to us. Problem solved...kinda.

So, if your donation is tax deductible, is it still classified as "abundant sharing" Way back when I was involved with The Way (eons ago), it was encouraged and there were forms that twig leaders had to fill out so people could deduct their ABS. Unfortunately, most of us didn't make enough to file the long form so it was a moot point. I have no idea what that has to do with puns but it is rather humorous in retrospect.

Dispensationalism was born out of the mind of John Nelson Darby. He needed to find a way to make his concept of the secret rapture fit with the scriptures. "If one accepted Darby's view of the secret rapture... Benjamin Wills Newton pointed out, then many Gospel passages must be "renounced as not properly ours."...this is precisely what Darby was prepared to do. Too traditional to admit that biblical authors might have contradicted each other, and too rationalist to admit that the prophetic maze defied penetration, Darby attempted a resolution of his exegetical dilemma by distinguishing between Scripture intended for the Church and Scripture intended for Israel... The task of the expositor of the Bible was, in a phrase that became the hallmark of dispensationalism, "rightly dividing the word of truth". From "The Roots of Fundamentalism: British and American Millenarianism 1800-1930" (1970) by Ernest R. Sandeen, University of Chicago Press ISBN 978-0-226-73467-5, p. 65-67" Short answer: No, they don't exist in the Bible.

I think some people are bothered by this sort of thing because we, as human type creatures, have an innate desire to be the one who is "right". (But I could be wrong.) :B)

Yeah, we were the poster children of compassion.

Not just the jokes, themselves, but the compulsion to interject unwarranted humor into situations that most people would not consider humorous. It can make you appear to be callous and flippant though that's not your intention at all. Is this a byproduct of time spent in The Way? I don't know. It does seem to be much more prevalent in ex-Waysters than in the general populace though. Just an observation.

nice!!!