waysider

And then there are the people who are skeptical because it took so long for it to be widely exposed. I think it demonstrates there is a whole other level to this sort of thing that many people just don't grasp.

Restaurant inspections usually have a clear, easily understood set of standards. (eg: Food must not be held below a specific temperature, etc.) Religious and philosophical beliefs are rarely as clearly defined. There is too much room for personal interpretation and subjectivity for regulation to be effective.(in my opinion)

Yeah..... "You're doing this all wrong!! By the way, would you do it again for another year?" :wacko:

"I heard that the 6th way corps once had this happen." That's probably the same one that coincided with the FellowLaborer event. While I don't think they were expertly skilled in manipulation techniques, I do think they deliberately designed and fabricated these two incidents. No one in that meeting had any idea what we could have possibly done that was so egregious. It was a heartbreaker. There were people there who had totally committed to the program, left holding the bag, in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of miles from home.

Most were subjected to the same kind of treatments. It's hard to imagine they haven't deduced the reality of what was happening. As to their motives, you would have to ask them.

It was in about 1976 or 1977. Wierwille was still fully in charge of The Way. Does that help?

I'm not clear on your meaning. Are you saying the criteria that defined an incident as a butt chewing was our perception of it? I have to disagree. You can give a butt chewing (or a motivational speech) to an inanimate object. It will not perceive anything. It's futile, sure, but that doesn't change the event.

I should have added that, later, here at GSC, I learned that almost this exact scenario was being played out for the Way Corps at the same time.......It was all a pre-orchestrated performance.

I'm going to try to reduce this one to the basics. In Fellowlaborers, we lived in an apartment complex in a small Ohio town. (We rented 8 townhouses that we called our *houses*.) We worked at Limb HQ, which was located in a rural setting about 30 minutes away. One night, in the middle of the night, 2/3 AM or so, we were awakened and told we had to be at Limb HQ for a special meeting in 20 minutes. Do the math....30 minute trip in 20 minutes. Of course we were all late. When we got there, we were ushered into the general meeting area, which was dark and silent. We were told not to talk among ourselves. So, all 50 or so of us sat there in silence, in the darkness, not knowing when the meeting would start or what it was about. When the limb leader finally arrived, he first chewed us out for being late and then proceeded to tell us the entire program was immediately cancelled. We were told that, because of our lack of believing, "Word Over The World" was destined for failure ...something about having a negative effect on Int. HQ because they were located so geographically near....huh? This kind of thing is devastating to people who have restructured their lives to be a part of the program. So, we go back to our *houses* and decide to have one more 5:30AM morning fellowship before packing it in. We get to fellowship and are told everything has changed. Now we can continue with the program if we will commit ourselves to following directions from the MOG without question. I should have packed it in and left right then and there but I didn't. And, that's the shortened, basic version.

When I left it was still growing or, at least, that was the perception I had at the time. So, no, I didn't have any bearing on my experience, aside, perhaps, that I felt guilty for no longer promoting it..

Wasn't it Doc Vic, himself, who said something about putting pickles in a jar labeled peaches? :blink:

Maybe it's a variation of Stockholm Syndrome.

Theism is a belief that God (or Gods) exists. A-Theism is an absence of this belief. Religion is an organized conglomeration of beliefs. Neither one (Theism or Atheism), in and of itself, constitutes a religion.

Precisely.

Once you join, you're in for life. If they then have kids, are the kids not also part of the group?

There is a rather large cult of motorcycle riders in the USA. They wear special uniforms so you'll know who they are. Many of their activities are already illegal but the group still exists and flourishes. I'm just tossing that out there for thought.

Irony is what strikes me. Wierwille promoted himself as one who disdained privately interpreting scriptures yet he did exactly that by taking this verse out of context and making it say something it clearly does not. He used it to promote the importance of PFAL as a gateway to the "abundance" he saw non-Christians manifesting. (AKA material things) In context, this verse has nothing at all to do with such matters. He cherry-picked it and contorted the meaning to suit his agenda. It was not by accident.

"This class will answer all your questions. All you have to do is sit through 36 mind-numbing hours of blather and ask us again when it's over." how convenient is that? uuuuhhhmmm...............Not so much.

I was newly married and chose to have sex with my wife (In a private setting), rather than clean our FellowLaborer "house". I don't remember how I got found out. It was almost 40 years ago. I think someone must have noticed we hadn't cleaned the house or something. I had to report directly to the limb leader for a butt chewing and a lecture on the importance of obedience to the MOG. I never told the wife because I didn't want her to know we had jeopardized our future in the program. edit: I wanted to make it clear that what I was chewed out for was not the sex part but, rather, not following the MOG's directive explicitly. I can still remember it like it was yesterday, sitting at attention in that little porch office at the limb home and nodding my head in compliance, all the while steaming inside. It was a real turning point for me in giving serious consideration to my loyalties.

"We're talking strictly about marriages here? And as it pertains to the husband alone?" That's what initially sparked the thread but there is certainly room to expand on it.

I think you have raised a valid point. Having talked to you on this forum in the past, I am aware you are quite a bit younger than me and raised in a much different environment. My generation grew up in an environment that, like Wierwille's, was highly focused on the man being in charge, whether it be in business, in finances or in marriage. So, in that respect, Wierwille was a product of his upbringing and his times. What set Wierwille apart, however, from Uncle Joe or Grandpa Cletus or our own fathers was perceived credibility. We gave Wierwille some kind of special credibility that we didn't give to our more familiar examples. It's a bit ironic,really, that by revolting against the status quo, we looked to someone who personified it.

In order to regulate cults, one would first have to formulate a clear definition of cults as a reference point. That might initially seem like an easy task but we've seen from pornography/obscenity regulations how vague and diverse such definitions can become.

....author unknown

This. I hadn't heard that quote since my first wife and I went through pre-marriage counseling, back in the mid '70s. It's sick...dedicating your life to the promotion of an abusive organization instead of pledging yourself to your spouse. And then, showing us how to do that by demonstrating defective marital techniques. No wonder so many Way marriages came apart at the seams.