waysider

"Sacred Science. The group's doctrine or ideology is considered to be the ultimate Truth, beyond all questioning or dispute. Truth is not to be found outside the group. The leader, as the spokesperson for God or for all humanity, is likewise above criticism." MRAP This (sacred science) is what you are seeking. It doesn't exist. If you stick around here long enough (and I hope you do.), what you will begin to realize is that PFAL and Way Theology in general have nothing special to offer that can't be found in other places. To begin with, PFAL was not a special body of knowledge, given to VPW so that he could "teach it like it hadn't been taught since the first century". It was really a hodge podge of plagiarized materials from people like Leonard, Bullinger, and on and on. Almost nothing in the class was original. Whole paragraphs, whole chapters, WHOLE BOOKS! were lifted from other sources that we, as young people were unfamiliar with. There are lots of threads here that can illustrate this for you. Just ask if there is something specific you want to know. So, if it's Biblical knowledge you seek, there is a whole world of knowledge at your fingertips. The Way does not have any "exclusive" insight on the Bible. Compare TWI sources with outside sources and discover this for yourself. Here's a thread you may enjoy. Fasten your seat belt. And another

The doctrinal forum is where you'll usually find people who are interested in that sort of thing.

Most cults I've encountered usually promote an unhealthy dose of cognitive dissonance.

Playing Devil's Advocate: If religion is the basis for our moral code, why do we continue to see so many examples of immoral behavior from people like Victor Barnyard who have had more religious exposure than any 10 ordinary shmoes?

It's on the house. Welcome aboard......

There have been many studies done on this subject. (Harvard, Yale, etc.) The essence of what has been found is that babies are born with a rudimentary, innate sense of "morality". That sense of morality is then developed and fine tuned by parental and societal influences. What evolution has taught us as a species is that it is to our advantage to try to get along with each other and do the right thing rather than simply focusing on our own individual needs. It ensures a better success rate for the species overall. So, in a sense, it's somewhat a matter of preservation, not only of the individual but also of the entire human race. edit: There are examples of "morality" to be found in non-human species, as well, though it would be difficult to judge them by human standards alone. Clearly, Capuchin monkeys do not subscribe to any sort of religion but they do exhibit a form of morality.

I think to really understand this, you need to accept some of the premises of evolution/survival of species. You also need to think of humans as merely one of the multitude of creatures that inhabit the planet. Male cats, for example, mark out a defined territory in order to keep the females from mating with male intruders. The male has an uncanny sense of knowing if a kitten has been fathered by another male. If it has, he kills it. This insures that his gene pool dominates the next generation. None of this sits well with people who view humans as the elite species.

Fact: There are more people living in slavery today than at any given point in the history of man. Rough estimates place the number at upwards of 35 million. I'm talking about REAL slavery, not just slavery as defined by individual perception. Many are right here in the good old U.S. of A. as a result of human trafficking. Now, the significance of that number is a bit skewed because there are also more people being born, more people dying, more people picking their nose, and so on. O.K., so how does this relate to the thread? If we continue to redefine slavery and assign it to some long forgotten culture, we do ourselves a disservice by turning a blind eye to reality. Slavery is real, it's here today and doing a thriving business, even at this very moment. We need to think of it as a current reality and problem, rather than something that happened long, long ago.

"If you take it one step further, why is there death to begin with." It's part of a natural, biological process called the Hayflick Limit

Warning! Men with crushed testicles may not approach the alter to offer sacrificial bread...Lev. 21:20 Wait! What??

I'm somewhat surprised that no one has brought up the "hedge of protection" angle yet. According to Way Theology, the devil, not God, was the one who caused bad things to happen when believers strayed outside the hedge of protection. In the case of Ananias and Sapphira, it was taught that it was the devil who caused these things to happen because they had walked outside the safety of the hedge and God could no longer protect them. This, of course, can't be applied to the premise of the thread because it wasn't the devil who introduced the laws, it was Yahweh.

I can remember, in The Way, being taught that this was because they had lied to the Man of God. In other words, the incident was used to indoctrinate followers to be loyal to and honest with leadership figures. It was used as a fear/control tactic. (But don't forget, "God is love." <_< )

Is this the part where the DJ cues Steely Dan playing "I'm A Fool To Do Your Dirty Work."?

It's like being "a little bit" pregnant. You're either pregnant or you're not. It's either moral to punish someone for not being a virgin or it's not.

We're not talking about the scribes and pharisees application of the law, we're talking about the law, itself, and the morality of its author.

Roy I'm not trained in dealing with the sort of difficulties that vex you. I wouldn't know where to even begin. There are people, though, who do have the training and expertise to help you navigate your way through this difficult journey we call "life". The only advise I can offer is to seek them out and allow them to help you. For what it's worth, I've enjoyed the many times we've talked back and forth on this board and I hope there will be many more times in the future. I hope you know you can PM me anytime you need or want to. I don't have many answers but I'm a pretty good listener. Stay tough. Planet Earth needs your holy hugs. waysider

Huh? What in the world does any of this have to do with the subject at hand?

Maybe if we all just spoke in tongues a little more and got our believing up, the eyes of our spiritual understanding would be opened. I'm just sayin'.

You don't employ an oxen or a draft horse in the same sense as you employ a human, you own it. What we're talking about here is, in essence, the concept of conscription (forced labor), putting humans in the same realm as work animals not negotiated contract employment (ebeddery). According to scripture, Yahweh approved of conscription. Please refer to the following scriptures for an expanded understanding of Biblical conscription: 1 Kings 9:21, Judges 1:28, Judges 1:35, 2 Chronicles 8:8. Do you or do you not approve of conscripted labor? edit: For the sake of clarity, let's leave the U.S. military draft out of the discussion. Agreed? re-edit: sentence structure.

"But mind you, according to scripture it should be happening right now." ...and that scripture would be Malachi 3:6 (I am the Lord, I change not.)

"I wish you could see it in the original. It's just....so-so."

You won't find on the jukebox.

While some of this may address the function of slavery in ancient times, I fail to see how it portrays Yahweh in a moral light.

"My belief is that morality does not come from our religion, but that some of our religion comes from our morality." This. It explains a lot about worldwide current events.

It frees you to consider Yahweh as a metaphorical concept rather than a divine entity. It's much less taboo to question a concept than to question the divine. Therefore, we can question whether a concept that was once accepted as moral is still moral by today's standards. It's not questioning God, it's questioning the conceptual morality of societal standards. You can't do that if everything has to "fit and have a purpose", etc.