waysider

Intentional contradiction does not equate with something being God-Breathed. We find this technique being used frequently in modern writing, as well. We call it irony.

:blink:

Modern Christianity is based largely on "what Paul said". So, it comes down to determining what Paul actually said. Did he say that all scripture is God-Breathed? The consensus among scholars would be that he did not. (Based on the assumption he did not write II Tim. 3:16, the verse that states that to be the case.) So, it might be God-Breathed and it might not. What we can be reasonably certain of, assuming Paul did not write the verse in question, is that II Tim. 3:16 should not be cited as the determining factor. I think we've extensively demonstrated on this and other threads that there are, indeed, contradictions in the scriptures. That much of it seems to be off the table. That leaves us with demonstrating that the scriptures are God-Breathed. The only indication we have that they are is a verse of scripture that appears to be a forgery. Why is it so important that they be God-Breathed? Is it because various men have told us they need to be? Maybe they're wrong. Maybe this idea that "It would all fall apart." is just a hyped up phrase that has no basis in reality.

I buried Paul. Sincerely, The Walrus

I apologize for ever being part of an organization that sanctioned this sort of behavior.

The bullying that went on in TWI was not the playground variety we hear so much about. It was a version of workplace bullying. Here's a snip from a helpful site that can help with understanding workplace bullying. "Unlike schoolyard bullying, you were not targeted because you were a "loner" without friends to stand up to the bullying gang. Nor are you a weakling. Most likely, you were targeted (for reasons the instigator may or may not have known) because you posed a "threat" to him or her. The perception of threat is entirely in his/her mind, but it is what he/she feels and believes. WBI research findings from our year 2000 study and conversations with thousands of targets have confirmed that targets appear to be the veteran and most skilled person in the workgroup. Targets are independent. They refuse to be subservient. Bullies seek to enslave targets. When targets take steps to preserve their dignity, their right to be treated with respect, bullies escalate their campaigns of hatred and intimidation to wrest control of the target's work from the target." SOURCE

Are you trying to say I'm not a real frog? It's not easy being green. Ya know?

"A bully only exists because it take others to allow them to be a bully - a bully is a result of other folks being whimps." This may be true for some types of bullies, the more blatant ones, such as you find on a school playground. But, the most skilled bullies I've encountered in my life are the ones who have people fooled into thinking they are "nice guys". They manipulate covertly and feign empathy. Those are the ones you have to watch out for. Being (or not being) a wimp isn't really a factor in those situations. In fact, the more you stand up to them, the more they turn up the heat. A negative response is what fuels them.

"But the whole things seems circular: How do we know scripture is God-breathed? It says so in scripture; How do we know that's correct? Well, it's in scripture, so it must be God-breathed." I like to say it has a "self-professed integrity". It sounds so much more academic. :B)

I wonder if there's a short synonym for sesquipedalian.

So...So...So..You're saying we were used as a sales force? Well, at least we were well paid.

And THIS is what we've been calling God Breathed? :blink: It sounds more like a writers' meeting for SNL.

I don't understand what you mean.

In order for that to be true, we would all have to agree his charisma is what drew us to The Way and kept us involved. We've already seen evidence to the contrary in less than 1 page of responses.

Maybe what we think of as charisma was really his ability to manipulate and bully people. He was good at it. People who never even met him were subjected to his manipulation through second and third hand sources. For example,during PLAF (The Wonder Class) we were manipulated into laughing at jokes we had heard many times before and didn't find amusing the first time. Certain sessions were hyped and we were to respond accordingly with excitement whether we were moved or not. The list goes on. Somehow, from far away, he was still able to evoke the sort of emotional responses and adulation he sought. That's charisma. Or at least a part of it.

He could be charismatic on stage. He knew how to evoke emotion. He could also be boring as hell when he would miss the emotional mark and just drone on and on. Much of what we think of regarding his charisma is a hype that was built around him. ""Wait until you hear session #5, Dr. is on fire!!" We bought it and we sold it. Did he really have it? Yes and no.

Where I live, public schools already use cameras extensively. Virtually every inch of a school can be seen, with the exception of areas where privacy is expected, such as restrooms, private counselling rooms and the like. They are not monitored "live" and captured data is recorded over after a certain amount of time. So, unless there are used to address a specific incident or matter of concern, their value is actually somewhat limited.

"God breathed the contradictions into the Tanakh in order to foil people who try to put him into a box (systematic theology)" Why that mischievous rascal. Who would have thought Him to be such a puckish rogue?

This only applied to adults. Some who were children in TWI may be of a different opinion.

Some people still line up to give him their lunch money.

The modern usage of "God-Breathed" implies an inherent flawlessness. How can we even be sure that's the message the author of Timothy meant to convey? Immediately following the word "Theopneustos" it says it is profitable (or useful) for doctrine reproof and correction. It doesn't say it is infallible or totally void of error. That's something that's been read into the meaning for whatever reasons.

Will either of these youtubes help?

Someone once said, "The Way is like a bunch of kids playing church." (I don't recall who said it.) The point is, you probably won't find very many scholastic analyses of kids playing church.

Sometimes I think people overthink things too much. It's a book. Or, more precisely, a collection of books and writings. It has multiple authors. They didn't always agree on some points. In fact, sometimes their ideas were in direct opposition with each other. There is not even a universally accepted order (canon) in which the writings should be listed. To think there can be no contradictions seems a little delusional or at least unrealistic. That's why people have contrived methodologies, such as dispensations, to whom it's written, etc. to resolve the confusion. The idea of being God-Breathed is a self declaration, promoted by Paul. It's a little bit like me declaring myself to be an expert. I ought to know because, well, I'm an expert. It's circular. No one can ever really know that they know that they know. Just accept it for what it is and accept that there will be things you will never be able to figure out. My 2 cents (adjusted accordingly for current inflation)