waysider

I wonder. Have they ever done a side-by-side comparison of VP's behavior with the Advanced Class teachings on that subject? (pg.12-24, in particular) It would probably scare the beejeebers out of them if they truly believe what they profess to believe..

Much the same argument could be made regarding people who, by no fault of their own, have family ties to people who have committed heinous crimes against society. It's unfortunate and we can empathize with them but we can't change the reality of history to accommodate them. edit: I know that sounds cold but it is what it is.

"Many of us left so thus, our kids were not forced to join to twi." The person who started this thread was born into and raised in The Way. There was no option other than to become part of the environment, willingly or otherwise. Much of what you see in this thread is tempered with that reality.

Where are these examples I'm just not "getting"? My personal beliefs have no bearing on your lack of ability to produce specific examples.

Sometimes it's hard to hop on that cognitive dissonance bandwagon all by yourself. You need a caring soul to help you climb on board.

Exactly. This is the stage where cognitive dissonance really kicks into high gear.

The organization was multi-cultured. There was one culture that represented the average Joe B.Leever you were apt to cross paths with in the local fellowship. This was the mushroom culture. (Keep them in the dark and feed them "the stuff that mushroom's flourish on".) Then there was an intermediate culture that flourished in the various training programs. In this culture, it was revealed, in part, that Way life would not be all peaches and cream but it served to instill a sense of obligation and commitment. The true innermost workings of the organization were intentionally withheld from this group and replaced with a candy coated version that wasn't made known at the local level, either. Then, there was an inner, very select culture that was well aware of the organization's true nature and mechanisms. It was at this level that VP's behavior was consistantly normalized and ignored. This was the culture that was in the driver's seat, pushing on toward what would eventually result in a horrific crash and burn scenario. This is the culture that so many unfortunately refuse to acknowledge.

Don't forget the Communist takeover of 1976 that never took place because of....you guessed it.....our believing.

Allow me to rephrase my request. Please produce specific examples of how and where The Way Int. had a major impact on the course of world history. edit:Parking space anecdotes not withstanding.

You are the one who made the claim.(post #32).... The burden of proof is on you to show that it did.

I can only answer for the area I came from, which is Cleveland, in the early 1970's. It wasn't unusual to have 150-200 people show up to the Sunday night branch meeting so I would say we were a pretty good sized, representative branch. Not all of those people were regular twig attendees so you can downplay the numbers somewhat. Lots and lots of hippy types, including myself. Drug use was not at all prevalent though I'm sure it must have existed to some degree. I would have to say that drug use was not a contributing factor to the growth of the Cleveland area. If anything, I think some folks were burned out on the drug culture and saw The Way as an alternative.

For whatever reason, most people in that era (not just Way people) didn't equate tobacco with drugs, even though it is clearly a drug. Smoking was very, very common among the Way followers. Breaks during PFAL classes were typified a by mass exodus to the outdoors to grab a quick smoke. (followed by a cup of stretched coffee, served in a reused styrofoam cup)

Drugs were strictly forbidden in FellowLaborers. (mid 1970's) We couldn't even have any type of alcohol, including beer, in our "houses". On a more localized level, the buzz was that any type of drug could open some sort of trap door, allowing devil spirits to enter your mind. No one wanted to be associated with that, of course. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if someone comments on how The Way helped them wean themself from the drug culture. Does that answer your question?

". but it appears "the world" caused the cults (the kind we here have in common)." I can get with that thought. It was a very trying time in history. Young people were desperately looking for answers to life's puzzles and felt a real compulsion to be a part of something that could change things for the better. (*better* as we perceived it) I don't think it was too much different than what leads young people to associate themselves with radical extremist groups today.

No, we worked at the limb HQ until about 9:30, drove back to the complex, which was about 30 minutes away, and then had night fellowships from 10:00 to 10:30. The remaining time was used to wash dinner dishes, prep the next day's breakfast, have house meetings and so on. It was a struggle at times to get everything done by midnight.

The Way had virtually no impact on the overall course of the world. The only impact it exacted was on individual lives. And, that impact was, for the most part, disruptive and detrimental. To think that what we did somehow altered the course of world events, in even the tiniest way, is pure delusion. It's like dreaming of his non-existent impact on the history of football.

For (most) working people, it's self-induced. For people in the Way training programs, it was mandated and enforced.

The 5 hour sleep pattern isn't a new thing for me, Rocky. It's been that way ever since FellowLaborers. (I had previously been a real bear to wake with less than 8 hours.) And, I'm not necessarily blaming that on the program. Maybe it was a natural shift. I know, however, it's not simply a matter of the aging process as I've experienced this since leaving the program in my late 20's. The good news is that if I stay awake for about 2 hours I can easily get back to sleep for another 2 hour stretch. Those 2 hours are sweet! The point is,looking back, I can see how "running on empty" made it much easier to manipulate our thinking and behavior.

2x post

Yes, it was critical to the functioning of FellowLaborers. We had to be in bed, lights out, no talking, at midnight. Then,we had to be back up at 5:00 AM for morning fellowship, our morning run and group breakfasts..... day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. After a while, you get so worn down you stop trying to fight it and just go into survival mode. We were even subjected to a teaching once on how we could probably go on no sleep at all if we would just learn to believe bigger and speak in tongue much more. Forty years later and I still can't sleep more than 5 hours in a single stretch. I feel kind of silly even admitting I bought into this nonsense at one time.

I never said it did. The question is "Why isn't TWI as big as it was in the 1970's?" I contend that the internet plays a part in the answer. People hear of The Way, search the internet for information and come away with a much more enlightened perspective than we old timers had.

OK, I was being facetious. As George pointed out, Wierwille taught the white heart/black heart thing in the Advanced Class. We, in like fashion, were supposed to, by virtue of the revelation manifestations, be able to tell if someone was what is now referred to as a "poser". So, we have these people come into the fold with ulterior motives, be it sales promotion, business scam, sexual conquest or whatever and they were able to fool us because they learned how to use Way lingo in a conversationally believable way. The only "revelation" we got that they were not as they appeared to be was from our BS meters, our common sense and previous experience. But, (and it's that notoriously big but) we were also taught to ignore these thoughts as they were indicators of negative believing and unrenewed mind. So why isn't The Way as big as it was in the 1970's? For one thing, most of us were still children in regards to our mental growth when we became involved. We have since matured in our mental abilities. In addition, something, something, something the internet. Capisce?

Nah. I was thinking more along the lines of being able to "see" black hearts and white hearts.

"Leadership aside, any "rank-and-file nobody" could learn the language. And use it to their gain. And they did, when leadership was absent." I'm sure if anyone ever did this we would be able to detect them immediately with our supernatural powers of discernment.