waysider

2x post

Yes, it was critical to the functioning of FellowLaborers. We had to be in bed, lights out, no talking, at midnight. Then,we had to be back up at 5:00 AM for morning fellowship, our morning run and group breakfasts..... day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. After a while, you get so worn down you stop trying to fight it and just go into survival mode. We were even subjected to a teaching once on how we could probably go on no sleep at all if we would just learn to believe bigger and speak in tongue much more. Forty years later and I still can't sleep more than 5 hours in a single stretch. I feel kind of silly even admitting I bought into this nonsense at one time.

I never said it did. The question is "Why isn't TWI as big as it was in the 1970's?" I contend that the internet plays a part in the answer. People hear of The Way, search the internet for information and come away with a much more enlightened perspective than we old timers had.

OK, I was being facetious. As George pointed out, Wierwille taught the white heart/black heart thing in the Advanced Class. We, in like fashion, were supposed to, by virtue of the revelation manifestations, be able to tell if someone was what is now referred to as a "poser". So, we have these people come into the fold with ulterior motives, be it sales promotion, business scam, sexual conquest or whatever and they were able to fool us because they learned how to use Way lingo in a conversationally believable way. The only "revelation" we got that they were not as they appeared to be was from our BS meters, our common sense and previous experience. But, (and it's that notoriously big but) we were also taught to ignore these thoughts as they were indicators of negative believing and unrenewed mind. So why isn't The Way as big as it was in the 1970's? For one thing, most of us were still children in regards to our mental growth when we became involved. We have since matured in our mental abilities. In addition, something, something, something the internet. Capisce?

Nah. I was thinking more along the lines of being able to "see" black hearts and white hearts.

"Leadership aside, any "rank-and-file nobody" could learn the language. And use it to their gain. And they did, when leadership was absent." I'm sure if anyone ever did this we would be able to detect them immediately with our supernatural powers of discernment.

Didn't you pay attention at twig the other night? It's all about our lack of believing. It's our fault. We need to start speaking in tongues more. Taking a dump? No excuse. You can SIT while you s*it. And don't forget Ephesians. Reading that sucker 10 times a day is simply not enough. Strive for 25 or 30. I know you can do it. I'm believing for you.

Would any of us have joined The Way if we had known what was in our futures?

There is a ton of good information in that video. The extraneous noises distracted me at first but made me focus more on what is being presented. It's a gem.

Yeah, they weren't too keen on that. Had to pick apart every little thing, looking for faults (real or imaginary).

"I'll take 'Because it's a cult' for $500, Alex."

We were advised that we would be labeled a cult because of our belief in the "Jesus Christ Is Not God" doctrine, completely ignoring the reality there are cults that aren't even Christian, or otherwise religion oriented in any way. It wasn't our Biblical beliefs that defined us as a cult, it was our crazy lifestyle and propensity for commune-like living arrangements.

In general terms, what I remember is how we scrambled to come up with believable rationalizations we could give to outsiders that would clarify why we were not like the people at Jonestown. We downplayed any similarities.

It's not going anywhere. :)

A spiritual epicenter; Yeah, in FellowLaborers, this concept played a big role. We were told that HQ is the spiritual epicenter and, because we were also in Ohio, what we did and "believed" had a spiritual impact on the whole *cough* ministry. In fact, there was an incident I have cited here previously involving the abrupt (though temporary) discontinuation of the whole program. We were told that, because of our shortfalls as a group and lack of proper "believing", Word Over The World and the future of the ministry was in jeopardy of failing. No condemnation though. Long story made short, we were given a second chance to prove our worthiness, contingent on our unwavering obedience to leadership. Fun times abounded. (Said no one......... until decades of nostalgia clouded their memories of reality)

"What do you guys think? Is this screwed up in some way I haven't yet noticed?" Yes, it fails to question the author's credibility .

"some mad minds who will not adhere to God's word call The Way a cult as they did Jesus Christ." I didn't know one person could be a cult all by himself. Interesting.

In most cases of bullying (the adult type, not the "mean kid on the playground" type) the most effective way of coping is not "standing up to it", but rather removing oneself from the source.

Do people even realize he sometimes surrounded himself with bodyguards? Do they know he would sometimes dispatch thugs to "have a word" with dissenters on the field?

GUTS

I never stood up to VPW because I never interacted with him. I did, however, stand up to leadership, including the limb leader. It cost me a lot. People who know me in real life are probably chuckling because my obstinance was usually the very thing that got me in trouble. It's a mistake to assume that no one pushed back. As Rocky pointed out, there were lots of people who stood up against the system. Their voices were squelched in the process. Remember, too, at the time, most of us had no idea the problems we saw were widespread and systemic. No, I don't see it as a problem of lack of guts. Lack of common sense, sure, but not a lack of guts.

"They just go along with the standard doctrine of the church of their choice, feeling they have nowhere else to go." That's what I meant by getting on the bandwagon.

I think that's called "getting on the bandwagon".

I don't know if this will help. PFAL was filmed in 1967. In one of the sessions, VPW says, "When Christ returns, he'll be coming back as King of King and Lord of Lords. He'll be coming back as Lord God Almighty!" This is a trinitarian viewpoint. I took PFAL in the summer of 1972. By that time, the "Jesus Christ is not God" doctine was being promoted. So, I would say it was sometime within that 5 year stretch. As class instructors, we were told to smooth over students' questions by stating that VP used to be trinity oriented but new research had changed that and he merely had a slip of the tongue. I asked why he didn't just rerecord that session and was told that the session was so perfect as it was it couldn't be duplicated with the needed correction. I call B.S. on that. I think what happened is VP latched onto this new (to him) stance in order to make his product both unique and controversial. edit: wording and spelling

There is a fundamental problem with the logic of this. It first assumes that those "proper" words have been authored by God to begin with. That takes us back to square one.