waysider

And, therein lies the difference between Jesus-centered Christianity and Paul-centered Christianity. Jesus-centered Christianity is very much about doing, feeding the hungry, taking care of those in need, treating people the way you would want them to treat you. Paul-centered Christianity, on the other hand, is a system that insists on entitlement or, as noted above, "it's not at all about us doing a damn thing". edit:grammar and stuff

You know what I think is a tragedy? There are still dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of people out there who are still convinced we were part of some noble effort, that we were an elite "spiritual" force. We were saps who got sucked into a destructive cult, that fundamentally differs very little from so many other cults that came before it or followed after. We're the unfortunate guy on the 11 o'clock news who suddenly realizes that guy who cleaned out his bank account didn't really have his best interests at heart.

I couldn't help hearing VPP's voice reading the "manifesto". "I gave my eye for you keeds." (sniffle/sob)

I can picture it as a scene from Monty Python's Flying Circus. "Oh, waiter...I'll have the foul tongue and brash swagger, please." "Very good, sir."

How many times does it need to be said? No politics on GSC. Capiche?

TPP has been widely covered all over the major news reporting media. If someone has missed it, they simply have not been paying attention. A random survey of people on the street has no value whatsoever, outside of entertainment. Please stop trying to bring political discussion back to GSC. This is not the proper venue for it.

You know what's missing from those excepts?...any meaningful mention of God. It's about Wierwille lamenting his inability to keep people blindly indoctrinated and obedient to his demands. It's about loyalty to the corporation. It's about maintaining conformity to a pre-established prototype. "I wish to God I had more ability...." Why was it OK for Wierwille to say things like that while we, on the other hand, were ripped to tiny shreds for ever saying anything remotely similar? (A question that needs no answer)

Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing is not the point. TPP has been a high profile topic of discussion in the U.S. for quite some time. It's not an obscure movement that has gone unnoticed. In that regard, there are an abundance of places, on the internet and otherwise, to discuss it's merits/lack of merits. It's a valid topic and should be discussed....but not on GSC, where we've established a "no politics" policy.

"Yes, this could be considered political." And, as such, it does not belong here.

HERE

“The evil that men do lives after them; The good is oft interred with their bones.” William Shakespeare---- Julius Caesar (Act 3/Scene 2)

That's really a whole other topic, in my opinion.

Where are my manners? Welcome to GSC, JayDee.

Okay, now that you've listed the reasons for joining, what about a list for leaving? BWAAAHAHA!

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all Abrahamic at the core level. This was not the case regarding worship of Diana, the goddess of the hunt. Diana was a figure in Roman mythology. The common thread that ties together the 3 aforementioned religions was not present in the worship of Diana.

On the other hand, you may start to find yourself wondering why no one seems to notice your absence, especially all those people who were fond of saying, "We sure do love you.".

Interesting piece. Looks like a good starting point for discussion.

What would I give to dance with my father again?

An interesting comparison: HERE

The entire organization is built on deception. VPW said he had received special insight that hadn't been known for 2,000 years. That's a lie. Almost all the books and classes were plagiarized. Some of them were stolen, word for word, page for page. Even entire books were plagiarized. Many times, Wierwille did not understand what he was copying. Other times, what he copied was never accurate in the first place. The challenge is not to find what is plagiarized, but, rather, to find what is not. You can find all the evidence you could possibly want or need right here on GSC. I'm pressed for time at the moment but you can use the search window or ask someone to assist you in finding examples. I'm not at all bitter. Relieved would more accurately describe how I felt when I finally saw what had happened to me. EDIT: words

Fear. Surrounding by bodyguards. I think of the Prez of the USA and the vast motorcade that carries him around. The henchmen and heavies that apparently surrounded VPW (he was dead before I got too involved, so no personal knowledge). I don't disbelief the reports. Even pop stars and other celebs have heavies to protect them (or enhance their egos). There's a paradox here, Twinky. Here was this guy who railed against fear, championed the *law of believing*, scolded those who couldn't believe for healing or wealth, chastised those who demonstrated the least bit of fear. And, yet , there he was, surrounding himself with armed thugs, guarding against the thing he feared...retaliation from disgruntled followers. Where was his own *believing* to be more than a conqueror, abiding in the safety of the Lord's watchful eye? It had much greater significance than the usual bodyguards of celebrities we've come to expect.

"Can God create a rock He cannot lift?" I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the answer is yes. I mean, why else were we always being told it was our responsibility to "lift" The Rock?

No one is criticizing your humor, MRAP. Many of us have had long, drawn-out "discussions" with Oldiesman over the years. Familiarize yourself with his history. Then, perhaps, you'll understand my previous post.

BlueCord One thing that helps, in my opinion, is coming to grips with the reality that The Way is just a cult. It's not some elite organization, striving for some noble goal. It's just a cult, like thousands of cults that have come before it and thousands yet to come. You're not reneging on a sacred vow nor should you allow anyone to make you feel guilty or ashamed. Even the worst of organizations has people who, as individuals, are goodhearted. The organization, itself, is corrupt to its very core. I first became involved in 1972. Even back then, it was corrupt and evil. I didn't know that, of course, nor did many of the genuinely good people I met along the way. Get out while you can. Don't be talked out of your decision.

Some of us know Oldies well enough to know he's not "fishing" for puns.