waysider

Two, three, even four decades after the fact, people still have trouble letting go of the (false) idea they were part of some sort of noble cause. You can see it time and again on a certain social media site, where people list their Way involvement as the highlight of their personal history.

I was heavily involved at the local level for about 3 years before I entered a commune type training program called FellowLaborers. You start out in The Way as a student. Next thing you know, you're helping to set up chairs for classes and helping with refreshments. Then, you find yourself coordinating a home fellowship. It continues to ramp up gradually. And, that's not necessarily so bad because, at the local level, people seem to care for each other. I met a lot of wonderful people while I was still involved at that level. Here's the thing, though. At its core, The Way runs like a multi-level-marketing organization. There will be more and more pressure to take on added responsibilities and less freedom for simply enjoying life. There is always a push to move on to the next level. The Way makes money on classes and book sales and various motivational events. That's not the end product, however. The main focus is on getting someone committed enough to give the organization a portion of each paycheck, month after month and year after year. It's called "abundant sharing". It's essentially a tithe plus an additional 5 or 10% tacked on. That's where the real money comes from. Last I heard, they were sitting on about 53 million dollars. Let me be clear about one thing. The money only flows in one direction, toward the organization's headquarters. Now and then, a token gesture is made to give the appearance of being a charitable organization but, for the most part, the money never comes back to the local level. Past leadership has used the coffers to fund lavish vacations, purchase a private airplane, motor coaches, expensive motorcycles and several classic automobiles. It reminds me of a well known MLM organization that claims to specialize in cleaning products. Everyone is so busy selling dealerships, they forget about the soap. With The Way, everyone is so busy selling 'the abundant life", no one seems to notice very few are living it. So, to answer your question, It's possible to remain a casual attendee at a local level but, not condoned. to say the least.

I was involved with The Way for several years and I've been out for several years now. Looking back, I think that discussions regarding doctrinal differences between Way beliefs and mainstream beliefs did more to strengthen my resolve than dissuade me. But, everyone's experience is unique so there's no absolute method I know of. I, too, was in a program that involved living with other Way people who had a similar level of commitment. Our main focus was to live a Way-prescribed lifestyle, recruit new members and support our efforts by working at secular jobs. In essence, it was what most people would call a commune. It was a religious commune,not the hippie, drug centered kind that's been portrayed by Hollywood movies and such. One of the key methods that was used was isolation/insulation from outside influences, including family and non-Way friends. This was much easier to do back in the 1970's when I was involved. Other than time spent at our secular jobs, we had very limited contact with outside sources. We had no T.V.s, no phones, no newspapers. To be honest, there was not much free, personal time that could have been given to such things anyway. (Our sleep allowances were limited to about 5 hours a night.) The world has changed dramatically since then. People on the other side of the globe know instantly when you put mustard on your hot dog instead of ketchup. Well, maybe not that extreme but, the internet has certainly made it much, much harder to keep followers in darkness. As others have said, keep the lines of communication open, let them know you care, and be patient. Everyone leaves when they're ready to leave, sometimes even sooner if they toss you out on your ear in the middle of the night. I hope we can answer any questions you may have. We will certainly try. edit: spelling

I'm not understanding the problem. Are you saying the toilet overflows or, that a pipe supplying water to the toilet (or the seal between the tank and bowl) is leaking? If you don't see evidence of any of these, it may be that the toilet is leaking at the wax seal where the bottom of the toilet connects to the drain pipe. Outside of that, you could have a cracked toilet. That is highly unlikely, though.

But, did people who were alive when Psalm 49:15 was written attach the same meaning to salvation as is attached to it today?

Welcome to FellowLaborers. Will you be staying for dinner?

Did you do that on purpose? You just reiterated what was implied by Way leadership.

I was trying to read your mind. All I could make out was "something, something, Donald Duck Dunn".

Mmmmmm! Looks delicious. If you're not going to drink that, I'll take it off your hands. Oh, and welcome aboard.

I was taught specifically that believers can not read minds. However, it was strongly implied, though not taught, that leaders could get revelation to tell them what you were thinking. So, in essence, they could know what you were thinking but not by way of mind reading. This would have been in the early 1970's, (maybe '73, '74) It's rather embarrassing now to think I bought into this nonsense.

There is no need to purposely stir up a hornet's nest.

My comment is purely anecdotal. I have known people who have tried, unsuccessfully, to use is it for weight loss. The results are extremely short lived. It requires constant, costly re-fortification sessions. In my opinion, this is to insure that a state of self delusion endures, albeit, temporarily. If you really, really want it to work, of course, it may work. Not because of the method but, rather, because of self-determination. I have never personally tried it, however, my observation of other peoples' experiences leads me to believe it is yet another scam, designed to bring financial gain to the purveyor. And, no, I don't think there is anything "spiritual" about it.

Now I'm devastated, devastated, I tell you. How awful to discover my hero and champion of spiritual insight was enamored of Weltweisheit.

I'm waiting for the Biblical parallels to begin. (ie: "Jesus didn't have a degree.") :B)

"Hey, gang! We have a new class and it's D.O.A.!" Heh. How much more appropriate can it get?

People get cancer sometimes through no fault of their own. You don't have to do something "bad" to get cancer. Cancer is a genetic malfunction. It is a result of cell replication gone amok. It's not caused by some evil spiritual entity. There is a lot of evidence showing how it physiologically takes place.

VP was a walking poster child for a multitude of the Advanced Class definitions of devil spirits. Either we were following a guy who was bursting with devil spirits or the whole thing was a bunch of nonsense. Either way, it doesn't look too good. Kinda funny that no one seemed to get revelation regarding the matter. But, back to cancer. Cancer is a natural process that takes place when cells that are repairing and replacing themselves go haywire.Who knows how many thousands of times a day the average person gets (potential) "cancer"? Fortunately, most healthy bodies are able to counteract the process before it turns into full-fledged cancer.

I thought I smelled familia.

What a surprise. :o

"Because what was/is so prominently thought and taught as believing doesn't appear to me to always square up with what pistis means biblically." Then start a thread in the doctrinal forum.

"I could care less whether you are or aren't moved in any way to investigate the matter further, or what you think of it." In other words, you don't really have anything to offer in this regard. "Look it up yourself." doesn't really cut it. "If you can't define pistis, faith, or believing (which doesn't seem to have been done here, that I can see), then how the heck do you know what criteria is or isn't consistent, and does or doesn't indicate it's a law? That's not a fact, Jack. It's just plain Sally silly." It doesn't matter one bit whether I or anyone else can give a definition of pistis that will suit you. It's not necessary for the purposes of defining a law. Believing is supposed to be a law, remember? ("God would have to change the laws of the universe"/"Works for saint and sinner, alike."....VPW) Since you're a fan of the internet, here is something pretty basic that might help you as you search it out yourself: WIKI "A physical law or scientific law is a theoretical statement "inferred from particular facts, applicable to a defined group or class of phenomena, and expressible by the statement that a particular phenomenon always occurs if certain conditions be present."

Sounds like a bunch of fluff, TLC. You said it "might seem to disagree". O.K....In what way does it "seem" to disagree? Saying "It's on the internet." is a total cop-out. It reminds me of how people in The Way used to say "It's spiritual" when they really didn't have an answer. Do I have any facts to support my statement? How about this. If it's a law, it should fulfill the criteria of anything being declared a law. It doesn't. That's a fact, Jack. If you want to look at it realistically, you could exclude any mention of the Bible, altogether. Wasn't it Wierwille who declared it to work for saint and sinner alike?

waysider: You can't cause something to happen merely by thinking about it. Nor can you prevent something from happening merely by thinking about it. Thoughts do not change anything in the physical world. TLC: I dunno, wayside. Quantum physics is weird, and at times might seem to somewhat disagree with that. Please enlighten me how quantum physics disagrees with my statement. waysider: The so-called law of believing is, in fact, not a law at all. TLC: Do you have proof and/or facts to support that? Do you have proof or facts to support its reality? If it was a law, it would have a consistent, predictable outcome when applied. Mix 2 parts hydrogen with 1 part oxygen or drop something off a building. We know what will happen in both cases. It's consistent and predictable. You can't change the outcome of either event by virtue of your thoughts.