QuietThinker

Thank you so much :-) My daughter is 7 and my son is 5 They grow sooooooo fast!

yes, I did misunderstand...so...is this right? Sigourney Weaver Working Girl Harrison Ford

I've not been sure where to put this, but it has been on my mind since I left TWI, and still weighs heavily on my thoughts...so maybe that means it's part of the sorting out process? Anyway, I remember when "witnessing and outreach" took a definite turn. We were counseled by our leadership that we needed to "effectively target and strike the most humble hearts" when it came to our outreach. We were to concentrate on "Friends, Family, and Co-workers." Does anyone else remember this? I'm looking at some notes I took from that teaching right now, and that's when our fellowship began the "weekly outreach" events, and we were all to carry around little witnessing cards, tallying the numbers of our week on them. The categories were: Spoke the word Invited to Fellowship Followed up (with a call) and brought to fellowship undersheparded/took class And we had to turn in these little 3x5 cards every Thursday night at HF. I remember, and see from my notes the following: "The people we are looking for are the salt of the earth. Don't waste your time with the wealthy, or the highly educated, they are too proud, too hard-hearted to hear the truth. Their God is already money and will not have ears to hear you. Also, do not concentrate on the very poor and indigent, they are slothful and lazy and have completely given over to the devil spirits that surround this entire corrupt welfare culture we live in." I was a good member in standing. I took my notes. (I rarely looked at them again), but this socio-economic .... set off my internal BS detectors even then. Even THEN, I knew that to make such claims and pervert scripture to back it up was most likely a way to merely bring in the most ABS Dollars per capita, per person. Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the educated...they are already trained to question. Of COURSE we shouldn't witness to the wealthy without "a substantial open door", because they probably already have financial planning in place and are unlikely to submit to a lay-person's parroted ideas of fiscal responsibility. Go for the lower middle class, we were told. Go for the mechanic, the divorced, or as I thought then, the people harried, under the gun, living on the edge of a gaping hole of debt that doesn't care if it swallows them alive. We were told that those people would be the only ones meek enough to receive The Word, but how callous and calculated was that teaching, as I now look back on it. What hurts me now, is that we were regular "teachers", my husband and I, in our HF. We never aspired to be corps, though I was pulled aside multiple times and told my husband had better step up and get his thinking right on leadership because I would be held responsible for "squandering my personal evangelical gift ministry." Erm...what? How could they have wanted us in corps? I was the most disobediant, loathesome cow and he was and is an autocrat. (Though, reading things now, I can see that's a quality highly to be prized in leadership candidates.) I suppose what's really got me in a twist tonight, is that I did just what I was told. I witnessed where I was told (except to my friends and family, because I was embarrassed, and I have no co-workers, I work from home). But those outreach events? Until they insisted on 2x2, I used to go hide. When we went 2 x 2, I intentionally steered away from people. I was not afraid to witness, it was just that when I did, people listened to me and apparently "my percentages" of witness to fellowship attendance was around 50%. I felt like I was scamming them for their money. I was afraid I would later have to admit to someone that I'd brought them to a bad place. I was terrified people would know what my husband was really like. All those reasons. I know there are people I witnessed to that are still In. I am having trouble with my role in that. I realise I didn't make them drink the kool-aid, but Yeesh, I certainly brought them to the table, poured the cup, and handed it to them. I tend not to focus on guilt these days...but those encounters still haunt me.

Sharon Stone Muse Andie MacDowel

Mmmmmm...you are so right. A wonderful Noir with Joseph Cotten as the intense police inspector, the uber-suave Charles Boyer as Paula's tormenting husband, Ingrid Bergman as the victim who eventually finds her strength...and the film debut (I do believe), of a 17 year-old Angela Lansbury as the schemeing, sexy maid who helps with the deception. Nice to meet you, Oldies, and...of course...your turn! QT

yes....but with a cast like that...oh, wait, no hints :-) hehe

Thanks, everyone :-) It's good to take a deep breath! Now, the boy-wonder and I are off to the bank. Paycheck deposit time, hehe QT

Thank you, Twinky and Bowtwi :) You know it was funny...when I had books ready to be published, I was told it was "vain imaginings" on my part...yet, TWI cashed the checks we wrote without a problem. My ex just phoned...he wants all his old TWI books and things...*sigh* Here we go again...now that our divorce is finally moving, he will repeat his pattern. Convince the new girl that he's a Godly-Guy, get her to fellowship, and the wheel will move. I've gently explained that he can have his things, but not the kids. What joys of de-programming I may be faced with in future. However, starting this process has been good, and eventually, I think it will surface more fully in my writing. My fella comes from a quaker background and occasionally still goes to meetings. I went with him, in Sheffield, when we were visiting his family in the UK. I actually started to sweat when I got to the meeting house, we were told such horrible things about the quakers in my HF. To my surprise, everyone was very nice and didn't push me or anything like that. It was so peaceful, that I fell asleep in the meeting (and hour of quiet reflection does that to me every time). My guy woke me up gently, smiled at me, then took me to the pub for a beer. We still see everyone from Quakers when we are in the UK, and yet no one has the temerity to suggest that we're spiritual lightweights (or slugs), for not giving up everything to live the pacifist lifestyle. A big difference. Oh, and they didn't lecture me on the demonic symbolism of my tattoos, either :-) QT

41, and fairly accurate, though, my signficant fella (this would be my post-TWI, present good guy and agent) says..."Well, that's because no one else has ever seen you in a contract negotiation" hehe, QT

I've tried to read *all* the posts in the 94 pages, but I could have missed this one. Anyway...I just watched this again this morning...it's a favourite. "If I were not mad, I could have helped you. Whatever you had done, I could have pitied and protected you. But because I am mad, I hate you. Because I am mad, I have betrayed you. And because I'm mad, I'm rejoicing in my heart, without a shred of pity, without a shred of regret, watching you go with glory in my heart!" here is the floor, open for guesses, QT

mmm... Crash :-)

Hi everyone, it's really nice to be here. Much of my story can be seen over at the thread in how TWI can ruin relationships, but as a more formal introduction, I'll just reiterate that I'm 36, please-God-let-me-be-divorced-this-year, Mom of 2 kids, a boy and a girl, and happy now that I'm on my own again... I should mention, too, that I had no dealings with TWI until 1994, I come from an intact family, both parents are still living, and I have three older brothers. My dad, a retired police officer, mentioned to me in 1995--"you realise that's a cult, don't you?" I scoffed. One of the many times I regret not listening to my dad. I'm picking the threads of my career up again, and going back to school--finally. So, I'm enjoying reading all the posts and information and am trying to kick myself in the @rse a little less every day. :-) QT

I'm a little hesitant to post, but I'm new to the forum here, though I've been reading for a little while. I'm a meticulous reader, and this thread really caught my attention, and makes me sigh for the past. I guess, by way of small introduction, I should tell you that I'm 36, in the midst of a nasty divorce that after 2 years seems endless, have 2 great kids and am a writer. I guess that will "out" me to anyone in my area who lurks and reads here, but I don't care anymore. I was in the last PFAL run in my state, the year I was married, in 1995. My husband had been standing since the early 70s, faded for a while, got his first divorce, met and witnessed to me, then we started attending fellowships and married. We did the classes, I babysat for countless hours and we served in small ways as just normal, average, every-day believer-types. I was young when I met my husband (2 years before I married him) and anxious to move away from my collegiate experiences into the real world. In other words, I was ripe for the picking. It all started subtley. First, when he was finishing his PhD, we were counseled that I should actually write it, since we were married and my long suits in language were far greater than his, it only made sense. As husband and wife, we were one, so it was ok. I wrote it. Somehow, in the following 10 years, it was never the right time to go back to school. Three years in, I finally recognized my husband's behaviour as abusive. Getting up at 3am after water was thrown in my face, and ordered to scrub the bathroom grout again with bleach and toothbrush, was not exactly the sort of loving reproof I'd anticipated. So, I left him. I took a risk, stayed with friends, and three days later, my huband, our HFC and our BC/LC appeared at my job. They told me, quietly, that if I didn't quit and walk away right at that moment, and return with my husband then I would be irrevocably lost to the household. My boss was watching. They made the atmosphere very tense. When my boss fired me that afternoon, because my HFC told him in my hearing that being an alcoholic, I had no business working in a restaurant that served alcohol, I thought they'd won. I went home. (My boss fired me because I learned my husband had been making threatening calls to the restaurant, he confided that later, the "confrontation" was merely an excuse.) We began marriage counseling. I was told over and over again that my inability to submit to the will of my husband was because I'd been sexually molested by my father and three brothers. I'm shamed even writing this...because nothing like that even remotely happened. My father and brothers are all fine, upstanding men. My BC (who later left TWI) received this information by revelation. Then he asked many prurient questions about my sex life with my husband...asking for graphic details. I told him to buy one of my books (it was a joke line becauses I write erotic and straight romance novels). When I tried to leave a second time...my husband insisted we go to one last fellowship together. I agreed. The HFC/LC at the time were living FAR from us, over 30 miles. We had come in one vehicle, my husband's. When we stepped in the house, only the LC and his wife were there. I was shouted at and verbally assaulted for 30 minutes. After I stopped looking like a deer in the headlights, I managed to croke out that I'd been lured there under false pretenses, and that if I weren't released at that moment I would use my cell phone to report to the police that I'd been kidnapped. Things cooled off considerably. There were apologies and smiles all around. Like a moron...I stayed. My husband continued to be controlling, I hid it from my family, and we got new "counselors". Why I ever listened to people less qualified than even MYSELF about these matters, I just can't say for sure. I just remember feeling isolated. I was then told to give up my career, it was suggested STRENUOUSLY, that anything I'd made financially be abundantly shared because my books had no spiritual worth, and have babies. I would be a better wife, I was told, if I had the contentment and challenge of raising children. I had two, two years apart. As soon as I realised 3 years ago, almost, that my husband would never change his abusive ways, and his reaction to our son's medical diagnosis of Autism was predictably to hit the roof, I insisted, finally, that he leave. He did, finally, and I've paid for it ever since in one way or another. It was funny though....I was in the wrong, completely, until the moment my husband walked away from the ministry, then the same people who had condemned and berated me couldn't fall over themselves fast enough to court me, and tell me what a jerk he was. I was a fool, but I'm not any longer. I have quietly faded from TWI, and really, no one cares about it. No one calls me, no one drops by now...I'm sure I'm not worth it to them. But, realistically, nearly 12 years, two kids, and a career in the toilet later...? I can say TWI didn't so much break my relationship up, as do its best to keep me in the worst relationship possible. Trusting people who might be skilled in scripture to be able to diagnose deep pathologies without any formal training in the areas that matter...seems a little off base to me. But, I *am* 36 now...and a lot less naive. Thanks for listening, QThinker