QuietThinker

What I received, Tom, was completely unrelated to the case that has been discussed on this thread, and while I have been away for some time, your message prompted me to return. I made two additional attempts to recover information, but, the sources with whom I spoke were not able to help me. I have it marked in my notes, and should I be in Norway any time this year obviously 2008 at this point), I suppose I could do some in-person research. However, this year going as it has gone, that doesn't look likely. Regardless, this was a thread I did not tie up when I stepped off the board some months back, and your message reminded me that this was something I had failed to report on...so, thanks for the inquiry, Tom. Yours Politely, QT

Wow, so I'm not the only one! Congratulations everyone, for working so hard and lasting the semester. And well done, Ham! I just finished my last final today, and have taken care of all my students grades. Only two of my students failed lab...I am *so* proud of them all! Yours summer-breakingly, QT

Mathematics: from the birth of numbers Statistics taught me to hate math. This book has brought back the love :) ~QT

I missed your birthday, Groucho....I was busy loafing myself! Hope it was just great. ~QT

I am extremely behind in this thread, but, Kathy's post reminded me of something. Have we touched at all on Brain Chemistry yet? Asking seriously, ~QT (Whose own brain chemistry is altered at the moment - school, feh!)

Dear Rainbow'sGirl (and everyone else, of course) My own involvement in GSC ebbs and flows with my schedule, which is probably obvious. Life does intrude, doesn't it? However, when I first came to the site, I suppose I spent about 5 months reading everything in the archives, well, to be honest, just the majority of the archives, before I even registered and began posting. What I have discovered is that GS is, like any other social structure, a diverse representation of beliefs, personalities, motivations and, to be honest, agendas. There are people here, like you, with what are the most pure intentions of anyone I've ever met. There are people, like ChattyKathy, with a huge capacity for curiosity and interest in working through a logical puzzle. There are people here whom are cast more in the mold of "defender of the faith" on any number of pet subjects. And, the list of descriptions could go on without end. So, here we are, all meshed together...in different places in our thinking, different places in our lives with different ideas as to where we'd like to end up...and, yet, this one broad commonality stripes us all--an involvement with an organization that affected us in a way profound enough that we searched out and discovered this community. In context of this community we are member of now, even our opinions and interpretations of that very thing which brought us together are very different. Jean, for example, has posted concerning the things she has felt to be positive about that time in her life and the things she sees still as having merit and value. While her opinion may lay in contrast with another poster here at GSC, it is perfectly valid and deserves a hearing--if only because she is a member of this community, and has a voice here. (Jean, you must understand I'm only using this as a larger example, and am personally very glad you've come on to post). And, I think that is finally where I'm headed with this post. It's about voice. For many people here, GSC has become a place where their voices are heard. After spending so much time having your voice silenced, and I speak not only of twi, it is a process to rediscover who you are, and who you were meant to be. Sometimes, therefore, that growing process is painful. And people shout, they whisper, the whine, they complain, they rail, they lecture (I'm probably most guilty of the last), they spit, the condemn, they praise...and sometimes, but rarely, someone like you comes along...and, then, there is singing. Joyous and clear singing. To speak, in any context, to me, is an act of bravery. Sometimes, it's an act of defiance...sometimes an act of desperation...but, to me, it always takes courage. Especially when you feel that by speaking you will face the condemnation of those around you. And, even here, and frankly I don't care how much fire this brings down upon my head, there are people who want to possess the only voice--the last word, the final say, or le mot juste. Language, as we both know as parents of very unique children, is as much a limitation as it is a door-opener. But, inadequate as it may be, it is all we have. I often find myself irritated when I tell my fella how much I love him. Love seems so plain and overused a word and wholly unable to describe the depth of feeling I carry for him. But, it is the only word I have, so, I use it. In writing this, I, too, find that the words cannot convey what a quick squeeze on your shoulder from me, your friend, would. But, again, it's what I have. This language is all any of us have...and it is sad, I think, when we use it to pummel and belittle instead of using it to illustrate that which is best in all of us. So, here we are, rubbing shoulders, all of us at the GSC cocktail party. And our social interactions shift and change as we move through the threads and the forums. There's bound to be conflict, it is, in fact, inevitable...and honestly, it's to be celebrated. Through conflict, we come to know ourselves better, and understand those around us with new eyes. However, conflict need not be hurtful in nature...so, for those that speak with an intention to wound, well...as a Christian might say, and the principle in spirit is something which which I agree, "By their fruit, you shall know them." All I can really say, and have taken much too long to say it...for all our differences, Rainbow'sGirl, I believe we are both women who stand by what we say--and that makes you, in my eyes, a treasure. Knowing you, even here, improves my life. Your voice cuts through much of the ambient noise. Yours even when busy with school, ~QT

hey, WG! Happy Birthday to you! ~QT

~~~Study Break~~~ I would suggest, Rascal, that the playing field is leveling though not fully in balance. And to be perfectly realistic, it's likely never going to be truly equal...one end slightly up, the other slightly down...always striving for equilibrium--that perfect state of homeostasis in which all systems are operating under the optimum conditions. And I don't mean to imply that women will always be on the down-side in terms of the issues that we're discussing. Circumstances have changed, as have many societal customs. What was seen as normative even ten years ago, well, shifts have occurred and still do. In the primary areas of influence--those directly in contact with each of us--there's a great deal of influence in terms of making a personal impact in education. I mean, that by our actions and examples at work and at home and with our friends, women can make a great impact on the thinking of others. (This, by the way, is also a reason why Hillary scares me, because, well, her actions and examples don't...shall we say...increase the buffer zone of my comfort level). I think it has proven historically accurate to say that whenever a group has sought to change their collective lot in the social structure, those first pioneers have had to hold a strong line. I'm thinking now of early suffragettes, the first women to enter predominantly male professions, and those types of examples. They had to be the best of the best, whether or not that was fair, in order to even be accepted. But, the continued press toward equality and the ability to command authority owes a great deal to those who first had the courage to stand up and say, "You know what, I've got a great brain...and natural abilities...I'll just be using them, thanks awfully." There are many precepts by which people can come to an individual determination of what defines the role of authority in any relationship. This thread has showcased multiple viewpoints...and I think that one commonality I've noticed is that no one commands a natural authority without also commanding respect. Authority can be wrested, abused, and used to punish as well as harm. Just because someone does that, however, doesn't make the usurpation of that authority meritorious or legitimate. Just something I'm thinking... Must....study....now ~QT

Y-I, Have a happy one! ~QT

This always happens to me... I find myself in the midst of a terrific conversation and my life intrudes. Feh. I have a gigantic test Friday (wherein I am the student and will be submitting to the Authority of both my text book and my professor) and so will be nose-buried until then. And mid-terms are starting. I also have a test of my own to sit down and write (wherein I am the teacher and will juggle the ability to use my authority in a balanced way, for while I want my test to be fair, it must also achieve the learning objectives as well as push my students to apply reason in conjunction with memorization). These have been great posts today and yesterday and I hope to have time to respond later this afternoon. And, John... I hope you will pass on to Jean how welcome her comments have been, if she's not reading herself (and a wave to Jean if you are). And I, too, hope she will return to post more. Yours hurriedly, ~QT

Well done, all you married people :-) I can't contribute meaningfully, but this is a great balance for the threads. Heartfelt congratulations and cheers to you all. ~QT

I agree, FullCircle... additionally, I would add, as well... I've got friends here. and I've learned a great deal about more than just twi, here. Oh...and have I ever mentioned that PurpleCow fixed my computer? Actually, I think WordWolf has a good idea as to why I'm here, too. Yours, ~QT

Hehehehe, Kathy :)

Wiki's representation of Swedish Government is really quite accurate. King Gustav, indeed, is a figurehead. Discrimination is heavily frowned upon in Scandinavia, though, as anywhere else, there are problems. I really don't see any women at the present time, at least currently active in politics, who would make a viable president. Of course, I think that about the men, too. ;-) ~QT

Excathedra~ Much has been glossed over in this thread, as sometimes happens, but I won't let your comment pass unsupported. Worthy means that upon a balance someone or something has value when judged against a given standard. The antithesis is that there are things without value, or worth. You do not belong on such a scale. Your merit as a person cannot be so casually assessed. You are, however, one of the finest women I know. I am proud and honored to call you friend. You matter so much. Yours lovingly, QT

In answer, John (and I've turned my sarcasm button off, so, there should be no misunderstanding). The other posters are correct. This is a thread about a woman's authority. It's a broad topic, and can handle many items, however, if you're interested in a discussion which thoughtfully and analytically examines the disparity between pay scales, property ownership, and socio-economic status, even within the narrow confines of American culture (which is what I think you mean by THIS culture), then, I shall begin a separate thread. If you don't believe my view has substance, which is the contextual implication of your sentence, then, why bother? However, on issues such as these, I won't stoop to bandying about opinion without some sort of clear data to support or confound our particular ideas. That would mean, of course, a real examination of available data at hand including sources and citations. As to your opinion of my "emotional autopilot" ... well, I can only say the data does not support your conclusions. Consideringly, ~QT

Ah, you are all posting quickly, and I'm busy with the mini-QT's. I'll return to answer.... .......of course. Yours snirkingly, _~QT

I am late to this thread, but, thank you for pointing me here Oenophile :) Although it's often regarded as a boutique illness, Depression is, without doubt, one of the most misunderstood conditions treated by the medical community. A simple case of depression is never just that, and I want to thank you, Oeno, for opening up this topic for discussion. There is still stigma attached, in some cases real and some cases perceived, to that admission of emotional disorders, mental disorders, and in taking the medications attached to them. While it is true that there are many modes of treatment available today for a broad spectrum of concerns, I feel it important to just mention that just "telling someone" the good things about his or her life and why they should just "get over it" is not at all useful to the discussion of the disorder. I'm not saying anyone here has done this. I'm speaking more broadly than that. I intend to think on this a while, before posting again. ~QT

Happy Birthday, George!!!! ~QT

Afternoon Everyone, and Hello, Jean as well. First, to clarify "our John" is an idiom. I could have used something else. And as to the rest...I have to go by what I read. People often have far different personas on the internet than they have in real life, and, certainly, personality traits reveal themselves through language--often when subterfuge was the original intention. I made it clear I was in part jesting, in my tone, but, the figures stand for themselves. Regardless of perceived media bias--which is undeniable--posting opinions and portraying them clearly as your own does not indicate an objection to what might be called "a belief in the current frame of thought." It comes across as an opinion. And...I believe we all have those. Yours clearly, QT

Today has been interesting for me on many levels. I'm not well and neither are my kids. Stomach flu for them, that particular joy is only compounding some other things I have going on. As a result of that, my ex has just dropped by to fulfill my pitiful request for gatorade, saltines, ibuprofen and prescription meds. We ended up having a talk about this very subject. One thing he said to me in the discussion was, I felt, very poignant. He said, "I never knew what to do with you. You were going so fast all the time, and nothing seemed under my control. I don't know why you can't submit to anyone, but I also don't know why I couldn't have been less of a prison-guard. I'm sorry for crushing you for so long." Now, that's the first thing he's ever said to me like an apology for anything. I was floored, I admit it. Even though he and his present partner are intending marriage and a return to TWI...at least he has had a moment of clarity. As it was said earlier, we can be great partners, probably, to other people. He loves the woman he is with now. She loves him. They treat my children with affection and no one disputes who is "The Mom." He and I were basically incompatible from the start. And yes, there are days when I wish I'd never been convinced to return to him when I left him the first time. It might have spared us 7 additional years of grief. But, we wouldn't have our wonderful children...and that must be counted. Oddly enough, I think I am the one who carries the most residual sadness. I wasted his time from the beginning. I never wanted the same things and I was never content in the place he'd made for me. My ex is 13 years or so older than I am, too, and while I think we are both happier now, those are years neither of us will ever get back. But, the difference is certainly wide. When we were married, my ex criticized me constantly about my physical appearance. I guess he thought I might somehow become miraculously shorter, or slice myself in half to be petite. Last night, my fella said that I am "The most smokin'-hot woman on the planet." Now, the fact that his opinion is particularly biased in no way reduces the impact of the compliment...and what a difference to be viewed as someone desirable and loved just as she is, rather than a project to be fixed. Yours smokin'-ly, ~QT

Indeed? Is it a funny thing? As I stated in my previous post, I thought at first John's post was quite sarcastic and meant to be humourous. I defer to the knowledge of my peers on this matter, as the general consensus seems to be that our John was quite serious. Well, then I shall simply extend my hand in greeting and say hello, John. I've never met an true misogynist before--at least none with guts enough to admit it. You seem quite a fan of statistics, John. In fact, your remembrance of something you read in 1976 jumps out in particular. So, a woman was earning $1.01 in contrast to a man's $1.00. Those figures of course do seem to negate the effect of the statistics that I posted with a citation as to their source from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, headed oddly enough by a man. I listed professions as well and made comparisons. However, I am a data person, and a cutter if you will, so I will defer to your greater knowledge here...that is if you can back it up with a citation. Such a wicked little pot-stirrer you are! ;) However, merely for your own, personal delectation, I'll just add a few more numbers. And these should be of particular interest to you, John. According to the United Nations Human Development Report and UNIFEM: Women and children make up 70% of the world's poor Women and children account for 80% of the world's refugees Women comprise over 2/3 of the world's illiterate population Women in developing countries are victim's of violence in 1/3 of all families Women perform 2/3 of the world's work Women produce, process and market 3/5 of all the world's food Women own 70% of all small businesses Women in developing countries repay their loans promptly 97% of the time. All of this data, I must say, John, seems to lead straight into your hypothesis. Perhaps you're right...perhaps, indeed, this conflict really is about a woman trying to take a man's money...I had no idea I was so wrong. And...yet.... And...yet.... And...yet... The same source quoted above reports: Women receive only 10% of the world's income Women own less than 1% of the world's property. Forgive me, please, John. I am teasing you. Of course, the data is real and provable, but I know very well that anything I have to say will merely be taken by you as an example of another uppity skirt spouting off at the mouth. So, I should not engage you on a humorous level. In order to share humor and affection, I believe there must first be a strong base of affection and understanding. I know that when I read certain phrases and words like: "Women have already taken our dignity and shattered it; made us into 2nd class citizens. Why COULDN'T men follow the women's example and say to hell with you I don't need you?"...that the beliefs held by the person writing them are not reachable by anything I would recognize as logic. So, whatever my disputes may be, I shall press you no further, John, and leave you in the peaceful world which you've built for yourself. You could never have any respect for someone like me, and to simply argue and rant at each other does nothing but eat up Paw's bandwidth. Yours regretfully, ~QT

Hmmm....most interesting post, John... Before I read FAL's response, I had thought, indeed, that it was posted with quite a large tongue poked in your cheek. However, I am under the weather, so, perhaps I just missed the point in my little female brain. Before I expend any energy at all, perhaps you could tell me if you're quite serious. And, please, type slowly and methodically... I'm only a woman after all. Yours thoughfully, ~QT

My dear Kathy, While we have not always seen completely eye to eye on every issue, I've had a wonderful time in our discussions and certainly have learned much from your input. I am delighted to know you and look forward to many more interesting and fun discussions. Regardless of your screen-nick, you're definitely a doll! Hope your birthday is everything and more that a birthday should be. With love, QT