oldiesman

If you are going to blame Tom's death squarely on Craig's shoulders, I would have to disagree. I believe Craig shares some responsibility, Ramona shares some responsibility, and Tom shares some responsibility.

I believe we can say we have a "father in the Word" if we want, and it doesn't mean that is idolatry, unless we put that "father" above "our Heavenly Father". Just like we can love and worship Jesus Christ... as long as we do not worship him above God... God is Supreme.

Yeah. VP taught years ago that the only way you can die is to quit believing. I still have the cassette tape, from the early 70's. It is from Hebrews (these all died in faith)...or something like that. The whole idea was that Christ died for all of our sins and sicknesses, up to the last one..which is death itself. Therefore, when one quits believing ... they die... I don't know if this teaching was revised in the later years.

At times they were, at times they were not. I suppose one may argue that the way to identify whether a twi corporate decision was a godly spiritual one, as opposed to a carnal one, was what kind of fruit it produced.

Wordwolf's Catholic threads are interesting reading. I would like to retract my previous statement, that only through observance of Roman Catholic sacraments maybe one can be saved. It appears they changed that, and now one does not have to be a Catholic to maybe be saved. Still, Catholic teaching is clear that salvation comes only by way of good works and sacraments, and even then, there are no guarantees. God's grace and faith in Jesus Christ alone, doesn't seal it. I haven't read nearly everything yet, but here is just one quote from the first website Wordwolf supplied:

That is understandable, since a Corporation cannot have holy spirit... (As far as I know) :P P.S. If anyone knows of any corporate entity in the world that has the holy spirit...please let me know, I'd like to join. :D

I've ridden the 883 Sportster... very nice bike

WOW that's an excellent point doojable, and thanks for your support. I also would add that an apple tree is an apple tree and not bear fruit, when it is not time to bear fruit, or not fruit season. Rascal I had no idea that you were into motorcycles. I love this one:

What is the ministry? Isn't it the people that associates with it? Like the word church...the church is the called out...the assembly of people. So saying there is no fruit in "the ministry" under that definition must mean that all the people involved with it bear no fruit of the spirit. Do you really believe that?

Rascal I have a few questions. Have you considered the following verse recently: When we consider this verse, then folks who manifested the acts of the sinful nature, who also confess their sins to God, are forgiven. Or do you suppose that having these acts of the sinful nature on one's record is enough to condemn them forever? *************************** What is a counterfeit Christian? You either have Christ in you, or you do not. Are you referring to a carnal Christian? *************************** By the way, please take a good look at that list of the acts of the sinful nature, in Galatians. Ever guilty of any of them yourself? I am... I believe none of us are so pure that we can do without our Saviour...

Well I would say they teach their version of the bible. The Catholic Church has traditionally held that salvation can be attained, maybe, only through observance of their sacraments. Maybe. Therefore, they have set themselves apart as the only true church... TWI taught simply that salvation comes though belief in Jesus Christ, a la Romans 10:9. So then which concept is more biblical, or closer to the truth?

I think all of us, if we are honest, have some of these things on our record. If you don't, praise God. The question is, do we live like this? When these acts of the sinful nature manifest themselves, do we ask God to forgive us? If mankind was perfect, mankind wouldn't need a Savior to save us from our sinful natures. That includes you me VP LCM and everyone else. We all have sinful natures. God saw that, that we mankind needed help that is why his Son paid the price...

Oakspear, are you really into Wiccanism or was that a joke?

You must be God, who knows and sees all things.Golly, I didn't think God was posting with us. :P I didn't know there was FRUIT of the flesh, I thought there were WORKS of the flesh. Yeah they committed adultery, a work of the flesh. But to say that they failed to have any fruit of the spirit, is something I did not know. Thanks God. :D

So then lemme get this straight. Are you saying that Dr. Wierwille taught the Corps that it was wrong for a man to touch a woman other than his wife? Geeze what hypocrisy, ya think?

Now you are accusing twi leaders and ministry of not having/manifesting the fruit of the spirit?

Johniam, No big deal to me either. I suppose the Apostle Paul also could be considered our father in the Word, since the greatness of the revelation we believe in and understand, came from him.

Preach the Word, teach the Word, pray, believe, be thankful to the one true God... Depends on what scriptures you are talking about. When one trusts God and Jesus, one doesn't need to trust in fruit, or labels.

Morgan, consider this: "Sunesis" October 15, 2005 Greasespot Cafe

Check out their website: CFCOFTEXAS

Time to take a break

The same verses I quoted above apply to you, me, twi, and anyone else. When someone fails to do the Word, they fail, be it you, me, twi, or anyone else. Feel free to post what you think applies to VP Wierwille, and I will read it. Can't promise you I will agree with any or all of your viewpoints though. My behavior doesn't always live up to the mark, for sure. But you know full well that whether one is a Christian or not, is not based upon one's behavior. Christianity is all about what God wrought in Christ Jesus. Christianity is Christ dying on the cross for your sins and mine, and folks who believe in that perfect sacrifice, confessing Christ as Lord and believing that God raised him from the dead. Christianity is about God and Christ and their good works...not humans' works. It is loathesome and pathetic when one of us accuses another brother or sister in Christ of not being a Christian, because of varying viewpoints, or lack of "good works". We know better than that, because of God's grace and Christ's perfect sacrifice. "It's not by works of righteousness, but by His grace alone".

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Veneration

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