oldiesman
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Everything posted by oldiesman
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On God-Breathed Scriptures
oldiesman replied to Raf's topic in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith
It's been debunked by other sources, but again, good "stuff" for another thread. -
I believe TWI got the tithing doctrine completely wrong, so I wouldn't spend time getting headaches over it. The key to prosperity is not tithing, it's a bunch of other things including WORK. I did research on this topic and addressed it with them personally, and the answer was "we should tithe to the ministry that represents God." And we know they meant TWI, but, they couldn't answer definitively if it worked inside another religious group, but if it did, it was less effective. And it didn't work for me, so as greasespotters say, it was a bunch of "bull shonta" from the "Bull dangta" text.
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On God-Breathed Scriptures
oldiesman replied to Raf's topic in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith
OldSkool, I watched the video a while back... it is VERY interesting but I don't think it's entirely accurate. We must view other sources and takes on it. But it's good "stuff" for another thread. Thanks. -
On God-Breathed Scriptures
oldiesman replied to Raf's topic in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith
Agreed. -
On God-Breathed Scriptures
oldiesman replied to Raf's topic in Atheism, nontheism, skepticism: Questioning Faith
Yes, agreed. I don't know how to prove it other than believing faith and seeing those results (if/when) they came, and the results are the proof. If there are no results, there is no proof. Now that is faith. Also, we have no proof of the hereafter... but that is Hope. -
11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it.
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I would try to answer this hypothetical and say it's "unaffected" but I think it'd be more so up to the believing faith of the person preaching and the believing faith of the person receiving. Does the theft just before twig make the words of the preacher void to Almighty God? The scriptures say it does not.
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Folks like us who have taken PFAL and are aware of the past teachings; some of us have been using and believing some of them for years, some have abandoned them, but for those like me who still believe parts; are supposed to reject them because of Wierwille's sins?
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I think at times he did, but, I believe the Lord works with regardless. 11 So shall my word be, which shall go forth from my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall do whatsoever I please, and shall prosper in the things for which I sent it. This reminds me of what someone told me about a priest holding mass right after he rapes an alter boy in the back room. She said the priest's crime doesn't stop Jesus from moving for his people. She said that Jesus the Lord is still there and comes in the Eucharist regardless of the sins of the priest, because he loves us and appears for our benefit. And he will deal with the priest at the judgment just like he will deal with you and me, and Victor Paul Wierwille. This follows what I've been saying repeatedly in the Greasespot, that the teachings of the Way or any other bible group should stand or fall on their own irrespective of the sins of the preacher.
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What I think I'm saying is that in the beginning the heavens were created as unlimited and accommodates an ever-expanding universe?
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I believe it must be. It started with "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Let's assume that the universe is more than a bubble but expanding indefinitely; then it's expanding in an already-existing heaven or heavens. I can't imagine... I think it's too big for human comprehension and when I focus on how big it all must be it gives me a headache.
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Heaven must be a whole lot bigger than we can possibly comprehend especially if the universe continues to expand indefinitely as some believe.
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Not sure if you meant your question to be rhetorical but I will try to give a short answer. The U.S. govt is set up that courts interpret the Constitution... state courts and federal courts and ultimately, the Supreme Court. It's the way the founders set the govt up and any other interpretation under our form of govt isn't considered valid and from my experience law enforcement agrees with that. Biblically, the Catholic Church is the oldest known guardian and interpretation of scriptures. Below is a pretty good link on the topic: makes logical sense to me: let me know what you think Bible can only be understood with the Church, Pope tells scholars | Catholic News Agency
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So you were once labeled M&A and they sent it out to you anyway. Yes surprising.
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Got one in yesterday's mail:
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I would agree with that as long as one confesses their sin first. I believe the RC church has the best process to confess sin, which is to confess to a priest which I've experienced to be very therapeutic and almost like hearing a "word of prophesy" to you from the Holy Spirit by way of the priest.
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Actually I believe PFAL and the rest of the teachings by Wierwille stand or fall on their own in and of themselves and aren't (and shouldn't be deemed as) automatically false because he lied about the snow storm. I feel the same way about the plagiarism in that, plagiarized material doesn't make the material itself false.
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Agreed. I believe he would have had to be in fellowship with the Father at those times he was "doing the word" which includes receiving revelation and taking action on it. His stuff wasn't original, so I believe his main job was compiling, organizing in one package, and he could have done all that just fine and godly without making up a .... snow story.
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Does the fact that a person commits horrible sins disqualify the person from receiving revelation? I don't think so -- because God chose numerous sinners throughout history who had Faith in Him who also were horrible sinners. Indeed, all the Bible came from sinners because Jesus never wrote a book. We believe (or disbelieve) the writings despite the sins of the individual delivering it.
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In TWI I experienced a twofold method of retention…or rather detention…I thought of wierwille / PFAL as the be-all and end-all of human existence. After all, wierwille was chosen by God and assigned the task of teaching us everything we needed to know. Why look any further? All other sources of knowledge pale in comparison to God-teaching-wierwille-teaching-us, right? And wierwille, LCM and all the other top leadership are always trustworthy too. If they find out that something is wrong, they’ll tell us, right? What’s there to worry about? Absolutely, I thought that way too in TWI. Then when I delved into the RC church, I saw that they think that way too. "It's our way or the highway." I guess it's a common phenomenon with corporate religions/ religious groups although I must say, if you don't attend or leave the RC church there's nobody there telling you to watch out that the devil doesn't make you a greasepot.
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Agree. As we know from the scriptures 'the just shall live by Faith' and we know faith is subjective. As one short example, VPW once said of one of his mentors' statement (I forgot who): 'no one can prove the Trinity, we accept it by Faith." Isn't that a true statement? Everything about God we either accept or reject by Faith or unbelief? Especially in today's world 2000 years later, when none of us has seen Jesus with our own eyes.
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I don't know what was in VPWs heart or his intention when he made the statement, but I took that to mean: "try it, if it doesn't work for you, forget it and leave. If it does work for you, stay with it." As far as the event actually taking place, a good case has been made that it never happened but I'm sticking with my thought that it's unproven and highly unlikely. Whether it's true or not is up to the individual; I don't believe it myself.
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VPW said in one of this teachings that if his "stuff" doesn't work for you, "kick it." If it does work, then "you've found an answer." So although the unproven 1942 promise was a hook, even so, PFAL and everything else in TWI had to be tested by the individual himself for truth and accuracy. If not, if one simply assumes its true and reject all other doctrine, and PFAL really is error, then you're screwed.
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Happy New Year! I trust everyone had a wonderful Hanukkah and Christmas 2022. I had lots of fun posting the Christmas carols. Is VPW in heaven? If we go by PFAL, no, he is "awaiting the return", and then is "heaven bound and all power from Hell cannot stop him from going." IF we go by RC catechism, he's either in HELL, or PURGATORY. The likelihood that he shot straight up to heaven, or the Beatific Vision, is HIGHLY unlikely; I'm not saying that only for VPW but all of us as this is what Catholics believe. I learned this in the RCIA course that I took: Purgatory is the most common place after death. Now where do I stand on this? I prefer to believe the latter because if we go by PFAL and its wrong, we are truly screwed for eternity. I don't want you or me or anyone to go to hell because we got that basic truth wrong. All comments welcome.
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The old PFAL class was shared by an old grad
oldiesman replied to oldiesman's topic in About The Way
That's an interesting goal and may be useful. Only remember Mike, not everything in PFAL is necessarily God-breathed (VPs own words) and there's ooodles of teachings in the world that are NOT in PFAL and that are quite useful and truthful and Godly.
