oldiesman

You say you trust the scriptures but from what I observe, you trust only those scriptures that support your position. So yeah you trust some, but you ignore many others.

Another telling admission here. A persons' fruit and / or what is inside of them is either good OR bad? Cannot be a combination of both?

Coolwaters, I notice some of your posts have been a tad insulting lately. Doesn't seem like you. Are you ok? I still like ya. :) Have one on me:

Yes! That is part of the point I make with Rascal's interpretation of Galatians 5. She looks at the works of VP and LCM and others, and says they are not going to inherit the Kingdom of God, and she goes by Galatians 5. Yes, when you take Galatians 5 literally, yes, they (and maybe even "we" :unsure: ) shall not inherit the Kingdom. Yes, that is what happens when you take one verse, literally, and throw out other verses to the contrary. And when you do that, Saul of Tarsus falls under that as well.

I think we need to get our definitions in sync. I would define unrepentant sinners as those who have not yet repented. Maybe you define it differently.

If I am mischaracterizing you, then you need to be more clear about what you are promoting and your interpretation of Galatians 5. I get the idea from your interpretation of Galatians 5, that since VP and LCM and others (perhaps even "we") have committed some of those works of the flesh spoke about in Galatians 5, that they shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. If that is the truth, then I apply that same truth to Saul of Tarsus, who also committed some of those things. No double standards.

You know what they say when you foot-u-me? :) I would never assume that just because an internet opinion is not refuted, it is agreed upon.

But why mention his conversion, what difference would that make since he committed those evil acts? I know you wouldn't think of white-washing those evil acts, would you? And, what difference would Saul's conversion make, according to your interpretation of Galatians 5:19-21? You consistently repeat that they who do those things are *of the flesh*, and shall not inherit the Kingdom of God ...

Suda, I emailed them a few days ago but didn't get a response. Am I missing something? I want to order if I am allowed.

Saul of Tarsus, anyone? Was just speaking with a friend of mine who believes everyone is saved, regardless of what they believe, or even do, through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. I haven't gone quite that far yet, but it is an interesting thought.

Do you want the TWI/PFAL answer or are you looking for a different answer? :)

Yes. The gift of holy spirit, being born again, sonship rights, all those goodies... doesn't innoculate the believer from getting possessed. Remember the teaching in PFAL about SIT and snake charming? You can speak in tongues and snake charm all at the same time. The SIT is genuine... the snake charming is possession. ...

All about curses? I wouldn't say that at all. Depends on who you are talking about, what time period, and what circumstance/incident. I have to assume most folks in twi have their own lives to worry about without blessing/cursing folks they don't have fellowship with, just like most of us. Although, I have to say that "some" of the internet defamation that goes on against twi may promote a blanket, one-size-fits-all condemnation of twi, evening cursing of twi, which I think can be unfair.

Saying that one who has left twi is playing in the "devils camp" is entirely different than saying that one is no longer a son of God, and no longer has sonship rights.

Who says that? A Christian's righteousness is not based on works, but on the sacrifice of Christ. We stand righteous before God because of what Christ did, not because of what we do.

I will try to summarize it ... because God made all of us righteous spiritually in Christ Jesus.Sin does not remove what God has wrought through Christ Jesus for us, thank God. :)

I don't suppose it would exist because it never needed to.Twi already taught and continues to teach that our son of God status, and sonship rights status, is permanent. (Although I never took WAP, I heard this is the case with WAP as well.) So why would twi have to, or feel the need to, teach that our sonship and sonship rights are permanent upon someone's departure? It has already been taught through established teachings that they are permanent. Permanent means permanent. Forevermore means forevermore. Eternal life means eternal life. Even a fool need not err therein! Mo, if you are suggesting that twi taught / said that us folks who left twi are no longer sons of God, and no longer have our God-given sonship rights (righteousness, sanctification, justification, redemption, ministry of reconciliation), then it is incumbent upon you to produce written evidence of same. Instead of suggesting fanciful theories, why not stick with established, verifiable, provable, teachings of twi? God knows there are enough of them without making these subtle accusations don't you think?

I didn't clarify leadership mindset ... I quoted an excerpt from PFAL that proves twi taught sonship rights are permanent ... which was in response to your suggestion that twi suggested that if one leaves twi, one loses their sonship and sonship rights, which in and of itself blatantly would contradict established twi teachings. Regarding mindset of leadership? I do not make blanket accusations ... my view is leaders varied in many ways.. there were good ones and bad ones; good ones who sometimes acted bad and bad ones who sometimes acted good; .... but basically, a leaders mindset is determined by the individual making the decision in a particular instance.

But whether that is true or false still would not negate a persons sonship or sonship rights, which is not based upon man's works, but the works of God in Christ Jesus that has been bestowed upon us who believe. Of course I am. They are permanent. Righteousness, sanctification, justification, redemption, ministry of reconciliation. Here's an excerpt on righteousness: You are Righteous NowThe Bible Tells Me So Pages 70-71

Mo, when did twi teach or suggest that if you left twi, you lost God's righteousness, and were no longer a son of God?

This is a terrific article. Thanks Belle. It appears twi isn't out of the woods just yet. :)

She didn't say that well-meaning Christians aren't righteous. She said "these good works do not make them righteous". She is saying that we were made righteous by faith, through the works of Jesus Christ... not our own good works. (Philippians 3:9) Confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart something that God promises is not telling God what to do it is confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart something that God has promised.