oldiesman

Cheer up Cool. Look at it this way, the more you took the class, the cheaper it was. $100 X 10 = $10.00 per class. $100 x 15 = $6.66 per class. $100 X 20 = $5.00 per class. $100 X 25 = $4.00 per class.

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Pointing out other religions has a purpose in that it is good food for thought. It asks of the viewer the basic question, "would you think that of another church that you may like, or a sinner with a different church", or "would you have the same relentless finger-pointing condemnational intensity" who's members in the other church do the same thing, or worse? It may help cut some hypocritical thinking, and help to keep some things in perspective.

Skyrider, I get where you're coming from and agree with you. I first took PFAL in 1973 at a one-week summer camp off of Long Island. There you couldn't just get up and leave unless you had a boat. :) But I loved it, and was expecting every part of it. I spoke in tongues a few weeks before the class, so for me, it wasn't an ambush at all, it was exhilerating. But I get what you're saying. Dr. Wierwille himself dropped in on the very last segment, after we spoke in tongues, and there was this guy who was having a problem. Dr. led him into speaking in tongues right there. And I hope it was genuine, and the guy wasn't just faking it. BTW, one of my pet peeves about running PFAL classes was having to "set a date", then having to later cancel, because not enough people signed up. I wrote to hq about that. Yeah I get this. PFAL was way too marketed when it didn't have to be .... heck perhaps folks didn't even have to take it at all if you had a wonderful fellowship like I had.

To get to that belief, I look at the blessings received in twi, believe they were genuinely from God, and believe God thru his grace and mercy worked with folks like Wierwille to get people the truth. I'm not saying everything he taught was truth, but lots of it was.

Not sure Mo, I doubt anyone could be that exact. I was just using some reverse logic from J. Barrax's post. The impression I got from his post, was that because of Dr. Wierwille's sins, he could not know the truth, and/or be trusted to teach others with it. But I believe the reverse. I believe Dr. Wierwlle knew the truth and was trusted to teach it, which also leads me to believe he was in fellowship with God and Christ and had a connection with them to do that .... multiple sins during his life, notwithstanding.

I agree. And it is for this very reason why I believe Dr. Wierwille's life was in harmony with God and Jesus Christ, when he was in harmony with them. When he wasn't, he wasn't. When King Solomon was in harmony with God, he was blessed and produced tremendous revelation from God. When his life was out of harmony, he was disfavored and produced the most flagrant transgressions imaginable.

Mo, this is not way brain at all but a reasonable controversy. Check out David Anderson's book... he's not way brained and you may find it quite thought provoking. Martin Luther may have had a similar position if I remember correctly. I could be wrong.

Mo, please share what the LDS Church teaches on this, I'm interested. If you don't want to do on this thread, please feel free to PM me.

Soundzgood. :)

That is in James, written by James the Lords brother "the Legalist". There is some controversy over whether that should have been added to the bible in the first place. Check out "The Two Ways of the Christian Church" by Dave Anderson. :)

That would be the in Christ Administration, before righteousness was made unto us through Christ Jesus. BTW, once I took a stranger in, a bum. Gave him food to eat, lemonade to drink. Invited him to fellowship. He never came back.

I agree. I remember the twi teaching that inheritance refers to rewards, so I think that makes more sense. Here's another scripture: Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. There the terminology is "hath any inheritance in", rather than just "inherit". I believe they are talking about the same thing. Not that I don't have my understanding problems with this whole concept. I mean, we are talking about losing inheritance for all eternity? Eternity is a long long long long time.

Paul warned the flock face to face about present dangers. vs. Anonymous postings of others' sins, rehashed over and over, with some of those sinners dead, who can't respond to the accusations. Apples and oranges.

I don't know Rascal ... from your unrelenting accusative posts against VP LCM the Bot and TWI in general, I'd say you manifest hatred and wrath against all of them... Just an observation ... But, thank God we are born again, and if we hate or have wrath, God won't cast us out because he loves us.

Mo, I'd say the same thing about "fruit" as I would about "SIT" I still believe SIT proves that one is born again. You believe "fruit" proves that one are born again. But neither get you born again. You don't have to SIT, or produce fruit, to be saved. Salvation is not by works, it's by God's grace.

Alright, here are the exceptions: 1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. All those who fall in that category, except of course VP, LCM, and whoever else it shant apply to...

Those who have committed fornication shall go to hell. No exceptions. No deviations. Ever get drunk? Burn baby burn.

Fornicators? :( Rascal... Fornicators?

Coolwaters, a reviler is one who uses abusive language. So then those who use abusive language shall go to hell?

Coolwaters, even the Apostle Paul said of himself that he was carnal, and a sinner, in Romans 7:14-25, so even if he stopped his murdering, he was still a sinner and sin worked in him. And when one interprets Galatians 5 like Rascal does, it doesn't matter whether Saul was converted or not, because he did the dirty deed and there is no mercy or forgiveness. She takes that verse literally, throws out others. *********************** You say VP never changed... were you around him 24/7? I spent a month with the guy in June of 1984.... didn't notice him murdering and raping... He was still teaching God's word ... How do you know he and LCM and others didn't ask God for forgiveness for their sins?

Scriptures on getting born again, and receiving forgiveness of sins, to name two. According to Rascal's condemnation of these men and others, they have no inheritance in the Kingdom of God, because they did those works of the flesh stated in Galatians 5. ( I should say some of "us" even, because some of "us" may have done some of those things in Gal. 5 :unsure: ) But that blanket condemnation ignores Christ's death on the cross for our sins, their sins, everyone's sins. Also ignores that these men believed in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, believed in Christ's sacrifice, ... proclaimed it, taught it, ooodles of times .... so they weren't unbelievers or Christ rejectors. Also, ignores I John, that says when we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. She must believe that these men didn't do that since she believes they are destined for hell. But how could she possibly know they didn't ask God for forgiveness? I don't know, but she does! And so, these men are going to hell because they committed those evil acts in Galatians 5, and to heck with any other evidence to the contrary. Did I answer your question?

That's interesting, because I think your argument is completely invalid as well. Not because the scriptures don't say what you are saying, but because you consistently elevate certain scriptures way way way up there to the skies, while simultaneously ignoring other scriptures in your assessment. If you said "I don't know" because there is evidence on both sides, it'd be more believable.

Naturally. When all you consider in your judgment is works of someone's flesh, and toss everything else about their life, for example what good they have done, you can't come to any other conclusion. Guilty as charged.