oldiesman

Tom, what we are discussing here are actually two issues... (1) the details/facts about the holocaust itself and (2) regardless of the facts, whether or not these facts are currently being used as propaganda for continued Zionist causes... I believe it can be argued that #2 is relevant to this thread, because it was this "propaganda" issue that was a reason, I believe, why Dr. Wierwille included these books in the twi bookstore. There is evidence that he believed this information was being used as propaganda for continued financial Jewish/Zionist interests and therefore I believe it becomes one of the reasons why we were exposed to all of this, to begin with. You seem to be the only one clamoring that this is off topic, yet others seem to find this debate useful, so why not leave the aforementioned arguments in this thread too? Don't you think this stuff is interesting? I do. Here's some of what Wierwille wrote: Excerpted from... By The Way Victor Paul Wierwille Sept. 26, 1980 St. Marys Evening Leader

googled average age for a great dane -- 8 years. sounds like this blessed dog is ready for doggie heaven.

I already presented my solution in a previous post: allocate the current $3-4 billions we send over there using it instead for repatration of Jews and others to come here and be Americans. Get U.S. out of this perpetual support of Zionism, which not only deeply antagonizes the Arab/Muslim world causing all matter of endless wars and killings against us, and makes us look partial and subservient to this cause. As opposed to instead acting in the best interests of another country, over ours?Abso-f-in-lutely! We put our trust and monies in the hands of our elected officials, and we expect them to deliver for us, the people of the U.S. Anything else would be treason. I am an Italian by ethnic background. But, when compared to U.S. interests, I couldn't give a rat's a$$ about "Italian interests of Italy". I am an American first. But that's also why I wouldn't stop folks of all ethnic backgrounds from coming here and enjoying what I do... We wouldn't be walking away, we'd be changing policy to get out of their affairs and helping folks in the process; and terrorists would welcome that action and the terrorism against us would cease (why do you think we are targets now?), and it would make us safer. We are playing in THEIR backyard, we should get out... I don't know, but at least we should try to eliminate the problems we do have, when we see them.

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

What has been profitable about U.S. decades-long support for Israel? Really. Or perhaps a better question maybe would be ... are there any policies we may apply right now that would be more profitable to the U.S., than our current policy? I see U.S. support for Israel and Zionism as a net loss for our country, especially when you factor in the possible Iraq-war connection, started in 1991 and continuing to this day, with no end in sight. To me this is a HUGE issue. Next up: IRAN...

Thanks for that thread, I'll study it. There's no question the Presidents and other Christian Zionists favored it. What I question, is how much pressure they exerted... or whether it was U.S. pressure/force who carried it out or bought it to pass. I think not. In hindsight, perhaps U.S. should have opposed it for reasons we are discussing now.

I wouldn't call what we didn't do "hate". What I'd say is, all of the love we manifested in twi was in the form of "move the word" which was the Prime Directive. Love was equated with the movement of the word, so anything we did contributing to that goal, was considered walking in love.

I haven't thought about that much because I'm not one of those so-called "Christian Zionists". But my answer to that would be, the return of Christ isn't determined by what nations on earth do.

Well, here's my solution: if we (U.S.) earmarked that $3-4 billion of loot we routinely send to Israel every year, using it instead for Jewish folks who wanted to to emigrate to the U.S.... think of how well that would be accepted around the world, especially the Arab/middle eastern world. We would finally put an end to years and years of criticism that we devils are supportive of Zionism, and instead live in relative peace with the muslim world. Would save a ton of lives too. Win-win situation.

As we see from the last two paragraphs, if the U.S. did exert some pressure, i.e Truman, it didn't do much good. Instead it appears it was the Jewish underground terrorist forces who carried out several attacks against the British, that caused them to change direction.

Abigail, I am unaware of any huge U.S. pressure put on Britain to create the state of Israel. Please feel free to post facts that support your conclusion. Excerpted from Wikipedia about "British Mandate of Palestine":

No "specific" point by bringing up Dresden, just thought about it when I saw that view of Manhattan and thought about the atrocities of war. We seem to be commenting on two issues on this thread... one, the holocaust of Jews and whether it was planned and real, systemitized, etc. Second, does the continuous reminder of the Jewish holocaust have a political agenda, i.e., eventual goal of keeping the U.S. in full support of Israel and Zionist causes? I take another look at that Manhattan skyline, and wonder if Manhattan will ever really be exposed to a nuclear weapon, wiping all of it out, because of continued U.S. support/promise to protect the safety of Israel. It's scary.

I'm a little astounded that you didn't see the similarity of fateful and callous decisions of these madmen.

dmiller, it wasn't 8 million, but have you heard of the Dresden tale? Dresden Holocaust by Churchill

Abigail, I don't think the U.S. played such a huge role in all of this... if you really want to blame a past country you could historically blame the Brits, who through their "British Mandate of Palestine" created this mess. We, as Americans, are now involved, because of globalists in our country who got us involved and are trying to keep us involved. (And I do not believe this is a "Jewish Globalist Conspiracy"... but, there ARE Globalists out there... Jewish and otherwise.) If they ARE Jewish, so what?... it is the "globalist" part I'm most concerned about. But I suppose there is this idea out there that we must continue to "pay for the sins of our forefathers" and therefore acquiese to the continued support of Israel and Zionism. Well, I just disagree with this concept as a freedom loving American who wants to get out of these deadly entanglements with other countries. Rather, I'd invite all Jews here (did somebody mention the State of Texas? :) ) so we can save huge amounts of money and lives. By getting ourselves "untangled" we'd be saving huge amounts of money, and lives (saving lives of Americans getting killed in future battles with middle easterners here, and abroad.)

Tom, I don't know if your question was just rhetorical, but I'll respond anyway. I believe the heart of the controversy lies not in whether Jews and others died a horrible death, of course they did and Nazi's are still responsible for that and are still racist and all .... but, whether or not it was an intentional, systematic, planned, event by Hitler and Co. This is the heart of the controversy and some folks want to dispute that... Butz disputes the usual understanding of what the Final Solution was, when he writes from his book:

Sogwap, I don't want to debate, just want to ask you, What does it mean to "continue in his goodness"? What have you been taught that means?

I think what you've done is put all those who use revisionist facts in the same camp as the KKK. But not everyone who may want to expose the holocaust as a myth, would necessarily espouse the KKK and like organizations. Maybe there are some, but how do you know which one of them espouses those views? Would you say that the author of "The Hoax of the Twentieth Century" A.R. Butz, espouses KKK ideology or is a white supremist? I don't get that from reading his stuff. While it may be true KKK and like organizations like to use facts from his book to promote their hate-filled ideology, is that Butz's fault? NO ... But he and others get lumped into one pot it seems. Just like Willis Carto, founder of Liberty Lobby (where "the Myth of the Six Million" was published). Carto gets labelled a White Supremist, fascist, Anti-Semite .... for communicating his information. But I believe he's about getting what he believes to be the truth out, and evidence indicates he doesn't hate Jews. But, does that stop some from labelling him a Jew hater and fascist? nah.. Here's a quote about Carto from Mark Lane, from his book "Plausible Denial". Lane, who describes Carto as "a true believer in the Constitution", represented Carto in the famous "Hunt v. Liberty Lobby" lawsuit:

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy, I would call it continuing use of the holocaust as propaganda to achieve the goals of today's Jewish Lobby in the U.S, which may put Israeli interests ahead of U.S. interests, depending on the circumstances. I don't know that the people who print counter-arguments to the holocaust, are automatically Jew-haters, or should be blanketly labelled that way. Some of them are even Jews themselves (accused of being self-hating Jews?). Maybe it could simply be the revisionists want to get what they believe out there on the table, that they believe the facts they are presenting is the truth, or at least closer to the truth than what we have been continuously fed by some in the establishment media? When one examines their stuff (and I have been reading some of it) they don't come off to me as Jew Haters. Here's an article from today's paper from Molly Ivins of Creators Syndicate: click here: U.S. Policy on Israel Needs Frank Discussion or read below:

Garth instead of resorting to personal attacks, why not try to make an intellectual response to the information What the Hey is sharing with us...

dorky potty tush

Soundzgood. :)

Does that refer to his mother's religion, or genetics? or both? :blink: My friend Irving once told me that in order for a Jew to be a bona-fide Jew, your mother had to be Jewish. So then Hitler was Jewish?

CK, today's evidence indicates that this is true of some, but not all. And of those some, many of those were intermarried with folks from the middle east... thus, the genetic factor. Take some time and read over the history and studies at www.khazaria.com you'll gain more insight on this interesting topic.

Why thank you Ricky. :)