oldiesman

I think this is gonna be a long thread, so get ready for more posts, folks. Golly, even Ward Cleaver knows what's gonna happen now...

Oh well, I tried. I guess folks still want to debate. I'm game. :)

Thank you for the kind words DesertVis. Although I would like this debate to continue, as I believe it can have some profit; I wonder if it's really worth it, considering the strong and hurtful emotions it brings to some folks. If others wish to retire from this thread, so shall I.

Before he died, I asked my dad whether he thought 6,000,000 Jews were killed, and he didn't think so. Not that his opinion was authoritative, because he wasn't there when the alleged gassings/murders occurred. But he did see some of the bloodiest fighting at the time. He was in the Rhineland battle, thru France, then Germany. He told me tales of feeding a poor hungry little girl among the ruins, where daily, she'd come to ask for food. He won a number of medals, including two Purple Hearts. There is a book out there where you can read about some of his experiences. He's even quoted in the book. Rhineland-The Battle To End The War

Mo, did you know you may order all the books from the twi bookstore? All is there, except PFAL, I believe...

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Golly, maybe I shouldn't use up too much of the website on this issue.:lol:

Oh come on John. You call me an idiot and a coward for posting my opinions on this topic and wanting to debate behind a computer? Gag me. For years, you never once lifted a finger trying to contact me privately in a pm, wanting to discuss something with me, wanting to call me on the phone, wanting to get to know me, etc. etc. I've been around, I'm not hiding. Yet, you publicly scorn me over this issue like it's something reprehensible now. Where were you all the years in twi, when this didn't seem to bother you? Come on now, why all the high and mighty righteous fervor NOW? So please, come down from your high horse and if you want to discuss an issue with me privately, pm me and I will gladly give you my full name, address, and phone number. It goes without saying but, may I suggest that if you can't or won't discuss a topic without resorting to namecalling and acrimony, then please move onto something else. If I had done what you did I'd have been reproved, and have been, with past posts. Seems like a double standard working here?

Garth, ha! Thanks for the laugh. :) On a serious note, I really don't know what your problem is... but if you don't like the content of a post, nobody is forcing you to read it. How many times must you be informed that this issue stands or falls on its own, regardless of the views of Victor Paul Wierwille? Please quit your repeated accusations of supposed Wierwille apology/worship.

Their book "None Dare Call It Conspiracy" was a good book. I am not a member of the John Birch Society but since John invoked them in context of anti-semitism, here is a response, for Greasespot perusal:

John, I've done some studying of John Birch Society materials over the years, and they are adamantly opposed to anti-semitic literature and they believe they've been falsely accused of being anti-semitic. Can you provide some written examples of their so-called anti-semitism?

Linda Z and dmiller, what is the problem with posting varying information and let the reader decide whether to believe it or not? I have no problem with folks posting pro-Zionist or anti-Nazi information, and I welcome it. Why not welcome revisionist information, as well? I am very thankful ... a debate such as this is banned in some other countries...

Yes. There was a time way back "in the good old days of twi :) " when they left the words of that hymn alone. That was my favorite song from PFAL camp in 1973.

Safari, Do you remember the following twi song, or was this before your time? ’Tis so sweet to trust in Jesus, And to take Him at His Word; Just to rest upon His promise, And to know, “Thus says the Lord!” Refrain Jesus, Jesus, how I trust Him! How I’ve proved Him o’er and o’er Jesus, Jesus, precious Jesus! O for grace to trust Him more! O how sweet to trust in Jesus, Just to trust His cleansing blood; And in simple faith to plunge me ’Neath the healing, cleansing flood! Refrain Yes, ’tis sweet to trust in Jesus, Just from sin and self to cease; Just from Jesus simply taking Life and rest, and joy and peace. Refrain I’m so glad I learned to trust Thee, Precious Jesus, Savior, Friend; And I know that Thou art with me, Wilt be with me to the end.

That is exactly what he wrote in his letter, which was called "carnal" by some of those who had no problem when Dr. Wierwille wrote the same, and in even stronger terms. What is more, the most vocal accusers of Craig's so-called carnality, were at the same time devoted to and giving obedience and support to Rev. Geer. *snort* *gag* *belch* on that pastrami

The terminology Craig used was "godly, loving, honest obedience and support according to God's Word and nothing beyond that ..." Good Lord, there is NOTHING wrong or carnal in that... in fact, it is quite admirable and godly, especially rendering that godly support to those who one stands with for a united, godly purpose, as we had. Heck, even rendering that kind of obedience and support to an employer wouldn't be carnal. Part of my job, every day, is to give obedience and support to my employer. So if that action is carnal, then I guess I practice carnality every day? ... Bayloewnay... folks. :)

I pdf'd it to myself, and it's not a very good copy. The original is not very good ... some words can't be read well. Plus it has some writing on it, some underlined sentences, some written words, and so forth. I guess I could white out what I can of the added script, re-pdf it to myself, and send it to whoever wants a copy...

Skyrider, on this point, you are correct. Lots of us oldtimers "from way back in those good old days of twi :) " know that it came from Dr. Wierwille. Even Craig himself wrote this, in his letter of April 14, 1989 addressed to the Staff Believers. Some must have forgotten what was what, but here's an excerpt: Craig correctly pointed out the folly of some who were calling his actions Carnal... yet, they themselves fully accepted it, when Dr. Wierwille did the exact same thing years before. Anyway Skyrider, do you have the letter by Dr. Wierwille, dated May 1977, addressed to Way Corps grads and students, that addresses this topic? I have it... perhaps if I get the ambition I will retype its contents for Greasespot perusal...

Maybe it was. Lots of times, folks create their own heaven or hell, depending on their own beliefs and choices.

For Greasespot Perusal:

Would someone please unchain Raffy from his computer so he doesn't have to waste time reading this stuff?

Here is the third installment of the revisionist "Holocaust 101" series, for Greasespot perusal:

No. By definition, racist groups do not welcome representatives of every race, to participate. TWI did/does...

Golly, wonder what it is about the DOCTRINE that may cause all of this sinning?

Here's what "Myth" says about Hoess:

Here is a continuation of revisionist thought/data: Zgram -- "Holocaust 101" -- Part II