oldiesman

What's the most common motorcycle accident? Take Longer To Look For Bikes

goodseed, thanks much for your kind words about Don. He was a good man.

Excellent point Allan. :)

Nice to hear some kind words about VP. :P

I think it would matter yes. Depends on what material is being tweaked and how much tweaking is going on. :) :D Good to read you too. :P

Yes I agree if the teachings are the same. The more offshoots there are, teaching the same things, the more good doctrine (or evil, depending on one's point of view) becomes more readily available when there are folks willing to spread it. I'd say it's actually better, for the longevity of the doctrine, to have numerous offshoots spreading the same thing. If/when one offshoot dies or gets boring (twi?), there are others still spreading it.

I was sure, and still am, that I was speaking in tongues. B.G. Leonard Gifts of the Spirit

Believers may pray and bless others with the spirit. Here's where I believe it comes from: 1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an [unknown] tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 1Cr 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit ...,

That's great, but it seems you, like me, don't believe some verses you don't want to believe. Or else you don't believe they are applicable to you, such as the ones in Acts and Corinthians about SIT. Like the one in Jude about "building up yourselfs...praying in the HS." Perhaps you believe these verses applied in an earlier time but not now? Don't see the profit in them in your life? Goey, I also gather from some of your statements that you believe some O.T. scriptures apply directly to you as well and yet again at the same time you sidestep some of those in Acts and Corinthians and others. I've proceeded similarly. I don't believe verses about tithing are applicable to me. There are others as well. Well I guess it's all a matter of choice what one believes, and some of us still believe SIT and all the benefits and blessings of the 1st Century Church can apply to believers today. Here's one way J.E. Stiles put it, from page 16 of his book, "The Gift of the Holy Spirit"

If you put it that way, I really don't know. If those who knew were too uninformed or fearful to say anything: Why didn't God send angels? Why didn't Jesus appear Himself? Why didn't God manifest Himself into the senses realm, to tell us?

It has been said that some folks confronted the sinners privately, to no avail. Can you imagine someone rebuking at a public meeting? What a circus. :)

That would be for the individual to evidence for him/herself, and if someone says they are blessed by SIT, I can take them for their word. It is like being a witness, we are witnesses and share with the world what we have experienced of our relationship/fellowship with God. Folks are free to believe or disbelieve. Goey, somehow I get the feeling that if you analyzed the bible itself as critically as you are analyzing SIT, you'd become a non-believer very quickly. Nothing wrong with that... just a little odd.

I agree. I think folks have manifested fruit of the spirit without speaking in tongues.

Just because twi taught something doesn't make it unreal. As mentioned before, SIT came before twi. Perhaps if the original first century church wasn't lost, we may have had a continuation of SIT all throughout history to the present, without TWI. ...

I agree with that too. I believe that for SIT too.

As we make an effort to do the will of God as stated in the scriptures. Here's an example: Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Col 3:13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also [do] ye. Col 3:14 And above all these things [put on] charity, which is the bond of perfectness. All of this takes work, takes an effort on our part to do it. Don't you agree?

It says "put on" the new man. That takes work, effort. "Be transformed by the renewing of your mind". I would say that God does the transforming, He works in us as we make the effort. I believe this is true of SIT as well. I think I'm a better person partly because of SIT, it helps.

If what you say is true and the Spirit is making intercession for us whether we SIT or otherwise; then I would say that SIT wouldn't effect that intercession either way. Worse case scenario, SIT if you like, God doesn't hold it against you as far as I know.

I think what happened with TWI is irrelevant to whether SIT is a genuine spiritual manifestation. I suppose one could argue that SIT is counterfeit, because the first century church was ruined as well. SIT was around before twi and SIT may very well outlast twi. I wouldn't know that those who sinned greatly "spoke in tongues more than ye all" in their private prayer life. Maybe they did or didn't? I don't know.Even so, still doesn't make the manifestation part of all that sinning. There are folks who didn't do those dirty deeds, SIT'd and can attest to SIT benefits. SIT doesn't make anyone not sin if they choose to sin. I partially agree with you on this. TWI taught that the renewed mind would transform the believer, not just SIT. That takes work and effort, not only SIT but changing thoughts too. Continual SIT in love can be a loving thing too... praying in tongues for someone is that along with edifying oneself in the spirit. I think everything is attitude. If you proceed with the right attitude in wanting to do God's best, SIT CAN AID YOU in all these things you mentioned.

Poor reasoning for me. Makes no sense to throw away what would be useful, because of someone's elses sins. Additionally, twi didn't invent SIT and there's plenty of folks who do it who never were influenced by twi.

What about verses 4-5? 1Cr 14:4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 1Cr 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Cannot be uttered in a known language to the speaker. It doesn't say that exactly, I know, but it was surmised that this was what it meant. If we don't know what we should pray for as we ought in our own language, the other conclusion is SIT, laloeing something which cannot be laloed in your known language. SIT still is the best explanation I've heard for this verse. Otherwise , if this verse is not talking about speaking in tongues, what exactly is it talking about? Can one explain in detail what these groanings are? I'm not saying you're wrong, you could be correct. But instead of this verse being used to disprove SIT, I'd be more interested and appreciative of what this verse precisely is talking about, if not SIT.

From what I've heard of the teachings against SIT today, they say don't do it ... it is devil possession, speaking gibberish, glossalalia, died with the apostles, and so forth. Teachings in favor of SIT are along the lines of what twi teaches. Not really a whole lot more to add here. One either believes it and manifests, sees and enjoys the profit of it; or one disbelieves it, doesn't do it, doesn't receive anything from it. At this point, I don't see any compelling reason why I need to stop SIT entirely.

Not too far different from what I experienced in twi. I'd also add one other thing from twi: "let go and let God"

During my stint in twi, I don't recall twi ever robbing me of having someone as a friend who I chose to have.