oldiesman

Another point that I believe has some merit was something Mike said a long time ago, that these books of Vp's were basically "workbooks" for PFAL students, and not designed for the general public. Books that were designed for the general public, for example, like Jesus Christ is not God, had endnotes and a bibliography. Yes, it would have been better had he given proper written acknowledgement, even in his "workbooks".

Don't you remember one of our admonitions to preach to everyone once before someone even gets a second hearing? Shake the dust off your feet if someone doesn't believe? That happened to me oodles of times. The idea was, more folks won't believe than believe so don't waste a lot of time on unbelievers.

If this is true, why did he tell us in 1972 "lots of the stuff I teach is not original"? Why did he have printed in the books he "sought enlightenment from men of God scattered across the continent"? Why did he have some of the books he learned from in the Way Bookstore, for all to read? (with the exception of Leonard & Stiles who he credited verbally) That doesn't sound like someone not giving credit or trying to hide where he got his information from. The fact is, he did give credit where credit was due; he just didn't give proper written acknowledgement.

As I recall, the saying was made in the context of witnessing, that's all. When we go out witnessing, we do not have to defend truth, we simply are witnesses to it. We preach and teach.. but to stand there and defend and argue all day is wasting time and energy. Like speaking in tongues. I can argue all day with someone trying to defend SIT, whereas all I have to do is teach what I know and be a witness to its benefits. There are folks who will not believe, no matter what, so why get in defense mode? Of course, if one chooses to argue all day, well, that's their chosen course.

Then what the heck are you complaining about? Good lawd. As Craig would say, quit complaining and GET B-U-S-Y. :o :lol:

This seems to be another imaginative way to talk about VP's failure to give proper written acknowledgement. Yeah, it would have been much better had he referenced these men better, but I think it wouldn't have changed much back then, or even now, if he did. It has been about 33 years since I was first introduced to PFAL, and in all that time, I haven't heard anything from any of Wierwille's sources, independently, apart from twi. Nothing is stopping them or their ministries/movements from knocking on my door, if they so choose. In other words, up to this point, I probably wouldn't have known anything about Leonard, Stiles, Kenyon, Bullinger, Daily, Jones, Cliffe, et al., if it weren't for Wierwille's ministry and teachings. Why that is, I don't know. Maybe that was God's plan all along for me. But I certainly don't consider Wierwille's teachings as carjacking others. Why should I think that way? All others are still free to flourish on their own, if that is what God intended before Wierwille supposedly carjacked. As opposed to that I think Wierwille has honored these men by teaching some of their stuff.

This is a new flick. I'll try to get more quotes soon.

I apologize to excathedra for doubting her story at one time.

Thanks CW, I forgot all that stuff. But no, these links you've referenced were not first hand stories, seems to me they were general discussions of the topic and about others who never posted, so I respectfully disagree with your assessment. As I recall any first hand accounts of this nature were treated respectfully by me ... I even mentioned sometime in a later post that I believed excathedra's story of her drugging experience, even though I expressed in a prior post that I found that sort of thing very hard to believe. That should count for something.

Oh yes that could be. Thanks for the remembrance that was a riot. :)

Oh well, let me say that it just struck me as hilarious that Rascal wouldn't expect folks to share it yet again when its be shared again and again and again in the past. Now if folks don't want to share it again, fine. But don't blame me. But if they don't, some others pipe in and say it's because they've been degraded or maligned by folks like me. Bull. Stop using me as your damn scapegoat. BTW, I don't recall EVER saying anything derogatory about someone's first hand accounts of sexual abuse. Go back to the threads and see for yourself. If there's something there, I'll apologize.

I don't know the origin, but vaguely remember it on "Rowan & Martins Laugh-in" :) Do you remember Judy Carne, she was hot.

Oh bullhockey. After it being said so many times in the past, now you're blaming me and using me as a scapegoat if it's not re-hashed all over again?

Hey CW, it's FRIDAY

Ya don't have to answer the question, I still like ya :)

and again

Yeah Eagle, don't expect people to go thru it yet again after we've all heard it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again [/size] and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and againand again and againand again and againand again and againand again and again

I know we prayed in the name of Jesus Christ all the time. "In the name of our living lord and savior, Jesus Christ" Is that leaving him out of the picture or suggesting his absence?

A must see, especially for all Anthony Hopkins fans! :)

It was made in late 2005, was in theatres in 2006, and came out on DVD just a few weeks ago. Here's another quote: