oldiesman

Wow, now that's a bit of spin. Who is "we"? Do you speak for all twi and ex twi?

Sunesis, you are free to call me anytime, or communicate with me anytime at any venue and discuss. Even face to face. That's if you have the courage to reveal yourself.

I never met B.G. Leonard and probably wouldn't know a thing about the man if it hadn't been for twi. I am thankful for his stand too.

I believe both were involved in blessings; God, and the organization and its participants. Just like CFF... Well I don't know. If this were true and the proper way to think in this day and time, would CFF still be teaching ooodles of Wierwillianiams?

VP screwed her after she came back a second time, a day after she was drugged. She was not under the influence of drugs the second time. Am I missing something?

It wasn't the BG Leonard ministry where some folks got their help, it was twi. Nothing wrong with BG Leonard ministry, but it sounds like you're trying to exclude twi from the body of Christ. And yes, Dr. Wierwille was part of the Body of Christ. Just ask CFF...

There is no question in my mind that PFAL teaches biblical truths, which ARE on the level of scripture. While I don't believe all (all without exception) are biblical truth, a lot of it is. Which yes, means that I believe Dr. Wierwille did have excellent spiritual understanding, despite his sins. Just like King Solomon. Let's be honest. If you and others who condemn Wierwille and PFAL spent time examining and studying Solomon's sins, and really take his repugnant acts to heart, like you do Wierwille's repugnant acts, you would find the Book of Proverbs repugnant to read. You don't. Because your entire focus is on the sins of Wierwille, which is why you find PFAL repugnant and can't stand it when folks post good things about it.

WhiteDove, we are on the same page here. I agree. BTW, why do some posters say that M was raped? According to the story, she wasn't. VP said "I didn't screw you, but it wouldn't have hurt you if I had." VP didn't screw her, but he gets accused of it, anyway. SORRY for the derail... i'm just as guilty now.

I suppose they shouldn't be thought of as the same, as Solomon did MUCH worse evil! The principle is the same though. If the teachings of flawed humans who greatly sin are contaminated so much so that the teachings must be discarded, then Proverbs and Song of Solomon must be discarded. Wow, what spin! They (the leaders) still hold Dr. Wierwille and his teachings (PFAL) in high regard. While repudiating Wierwille's sins, they still honor Dr. Wierwille for his works sake, which the bible says to do. Don't believe me, speak to Wayne Clapp. I did, a few months ago when he ran my sister's memorial service. Make no mistake, CFF honors Wierwille.

I think it's much more selfish to antagonize folks who still love PFAL and the concepts they learned from it. You know what, if the above statement by CATCUP were really an honest and godly way to think, that folks should repudiate the teachings and communications of those who have sinned, I think the Book of Proverbs wouldn't have been included in the bible and should not be read. Let's be honest about it. Just look at the sins of Solomon as you do with Wierwille. I also think that the offshoots are great, especially CFF. They still hold VP AND PFAL IN HIGH REGARD. --- That must REALLY TICK SOME FOLKS OFF, know what I mean?

Yes, I understand. But this thread isn't about Wierwille's big hairy sins, it's about sharing things learned in PFAL. Have a nice weekend.

God loves a cheerful giver, so if you weren't cheerful about giving of your time, your money, you life, etc., it was a waste of time. And I believe VP wanted the same. I believe his heart was that he didn't want folks hanging around who didn't want to be there. I believed it was Christ in me, the hope of Glory. I believed in my sonship rights. I believed all the manifestations, that I was "the apple of His eye". I knew that God wanted me to fellowship and that was his primary will, and when I stepped out of that will, I still believed that God loved me and protected me despite my disobedience. I also believed the part in PFAL about "fear motivation" and didn't allow anyone to control me through fear, more or less.

Are your finger-pointing haranguing accusations over yet, Rascal? I get it. You are on a Godly mission from the true God to drum in posters' brains that VP & LCM & Co. were evil men. Drugging and raping and drugging and raping and drugging and raping young helpless girls. It can't be said enough. Over and over and over again, it needs to be said over and over and over again. And again. But, can't you tolerate some posts about what some posters learned in PFAL without engaging in your endless tirades? Sure you can. You are a very loving person. Yes. The end.

Who is "we" , Pond? I like Deciderator's posts. If you don't like them, unchain yourself to your computer and go do something else.

Not necessarily. Depends on the facts of a particular situation.

Another spot, I had no difficulty understanding your incident. Thanks for sharing. I think lots of us experienced some of the same things in twi. Generally, my view of my involvement was having free choices. "freely avail", as they say . I was free not to go to twig, or to leave, and did so on some occasions for several months. I made the choice to go back too. I accept full responsibility for my choices. This doesn't mean I always was in full control. For instance, I went WOW twice, and was in the corps for a few months. During those venues, I relinquished my will and wishes to someone else's, in many cases. This was done freely and for a purpose. To grow, to learn. Nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. I accepted it as a challenge and look back on those days as good learning.

Where? When? The incident I spoke about was the one another spot communicated.

You didn't say. Did I say your incidents did?

Actually there isn't. There are lots of opinions, but I read only one actual incident, from another spot, which I agree with but doesn't even seem to involve twi.

Deciderator, PFAL was communicated for folks like you. I believe this is EXACTLY what Dr. Wierwille wanted when he taught the class, that folks could work the word themselves and make it their own. Bravo!

It's ok to communicate an incident without mentioning names. Sorry you don't get that. Actually, your exact point isn't all that clear to me since i am unaware of the facts of the situation. It'd be foolish for me to automatically agree or disagree with your point about these events you speak, without some knowledge of the specific facts. Who is "us"? Here, do you assume that all twi participants were / are spineless?

That is your choice ... just wanted to try to understand your point better.

I got it Deciderator. Thanks for sharing.

Without mentioning names, are you able to explain the details of these events?

Welcome to this place Ephesians.